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gulls (4 Viewers)

hi cris,

it looks identic to the bird in #1315 ergo it got to be the same ind., ain't it? and that's a striking 2cy micha, pic 3, with one of herastrau's abundant catfish (silurus glanis)! it got some 3rd gen scaps as well.

Thank you for your input, Lou.
I really didn't notice that is the same bird, but looking at the pics I have to agree with you :t:.
The Yellow-legged has a beautiful plumage indeed, as you can see here.
 

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hi steve,

i wouldn't hesitate to call your gull a good caspian. bill and scaps are absolutely perfect for a 3cy cach, it just has a rel. strongly marked tail, but that's well inside variation for casp.
edit: now, after having a second look, there might be some reason for argentatus-genes in it: 1. all coverts are brownish immature, not even median coverts are grey (mc are usually the firsts to get adult grey), 2. the very well marked uppertail- and undertail coverts. now there could be some discussion whether this is within caspian variation or not - actually with so many hybrids around it is hard to prove so, but from my experience variation is huge in caspian (as in other LWHG) especially when it comes to 2-4cy birds. it might be a retarded and well marked pure female caspian (structure, p10-mirror, tertials, bill coloration - everything fits) or it may be a hybrid or backcross, hard to tell.

p.s. a great and well ordered gullery you have on your website, did i mention that yet?

all the best,
 
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hi steve,

i wouldn't hesitate to call your gull a good caspian. bill and scaps are absolutely perfect for a 3cy cach, it just has a rel. strongly marked tail, but that's well inside variation for casp.
edit: now, after having a second look, there might be some reason for argentatus-genes in it: 1. all coverts are brownish immature, not even median coverts are grey (mc are usually the firsts to get adult grey), 2. the very well marked uppertail- and undertail coverts. now there could be some discussion whether this is within caspian variation or not - actually with so many hybrids around it is hard to prove so, but from my experience variation is huge in caspian (as in other LWHG) especially when it comes to 2-4cy birds. it might be a retarded and well marked pure female caspian (structure, p10-mirror, tertials, bill coloration - everything fits) or it may be a hybrid or backcross, hard to tell.

p.s. a great and well ordered gullery you have on your website, did i mention that yet?

all the best,

At the time I thought it was a good Caspian but once I had time to appreciate the features over a longer period there were a few aspects that didn't seem to sit with Casp, most notably the strongly marked upper and undertail coverts, the lack of any moulted median coverts compared with the advanced stage of the scapulars and the contrastingly solid greater coverts being darker than the medians and lessers.

It may well be one of the birds that will never get fully identified other than a possible this, probably that though I suspect it most likely a hybrid.

Also many thanks on the comments on my gulls pages, keep coming up with ideas on layouts etc.
 
Hi Folks, any comments on this Gull would be welcome, unfortunately no open winged shots were obtained,

cheers,SView attachment 244218

View attachment 244219

that's a hard one, S.
but i'd try a guess that a bird with such an obvious short primary projection would most probably be a herring gull! bill is misshaped thus looking casp-like, white head and shawl are caspian fakes too. but the bold greater covert pattern and notches in tertial crescents again sustaines the herring gull theory. scapulars however are weird...

cheers,
 
Hi Lou, yes a puzzling bird! Actually in the field the bird showed a very long primary projection, its just been foreshortened in these rather poor pics.What was interesting, was that the underwing was almost gleaming white, really eyecatching.as you say the greater coverts are Herring but the scapulars were very unusual looking!
Thanks for the comments,
cheers,S
 
Here are 3 pics with the GBB Gull in the company of our old friend from posts 1315 and 1318. What about the centered bird from the third pic? It's a 2cy Yellow-legged?
 

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This bird has a certain Caspian feel to it, facial expression, small head, long neck, snouty face, long wings, long pale legs, hanging rear belly and strikingly white tail coverts and the pale underwing etc but there are a few features which lend the bird away from being a pure blood.

The tertials although very dark show a lot of white at the tips and the fringes, the bill pattern is suggestive more of a Herring Gull at 2nd winter age rather than of a Casp, the upperparts are to blue-grey (quite advanced), The extent of the barring on the upper-tail and under-tail coverts is extensive and bold.

The greater coverts are uniformly dark across the wing creating a constrasting dark panel when compared with the pale fringed median and lesser coverts. The white head certainly contrasts with the lower hind neck streaking.

On the spread wing there is little contrast across the primaries, the inners do not form an obious paler panel, and there is a small mirror to P10.

I've never seen a pure Caspian look like this, nor a Herring Gull for that matter, so I believe this bird is likely to a hybrid CaspianxHerring Gull.

The heavily marked undertail coverts, especially central area, uppertail coverts together with 1st generation like inner primaries looks somehow strange for a 2nd winter Caspian. Not that much difference in standing bird to this one:

http://www.pbase.com/slisch/image/105893359

JanJ
 
Hi Lou, yes a puzzling bird! Actually in the field the bird showed a very long primary projection, its just been foreshortened in these rather poor pics.What was interesting, was that the underwing was almost gleaming white, really eyecatching.as you say the greater coverts are Herring but the scapulars were very unusual looking!
Thanks for the comments,
cheers,S

well with a gleaming white underside and a long pp (i wasn't sure in the 2nd pic if the long thing were its wingtips or a waveshadow in the water - in this case it gets more tricky - can't help with a definite answer and definitely an interesting bird, snowcap. sure i'd like to here the other's opinions.
 
Here are two more pics with the centered bird from the third pic, post # 1330. Sorry for the quality (heavy crops and the bird was at the edge of the frame). Unfortunately this is all I have. I also added a heavy crop of the original pic from the post 1330. My humble opinion: a 2cy michahellis with a plain patterned mantle.
 

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