Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment (1 Viewer)

[cuckooroller]

Interesting perspective, Steve. Tell me again which flag you are flying under?

I imagine this is intended to be rhetorical and dismissive. I am an american expat and have lived in the same sort of failed nanny state that some would wish to emulate in the U.S. I am originally from California. Many of my friends are now leaving that State.

 

[cuckooroller]

'fabianized' ? Like the 'teen idol' 50 years ago?

I know Chico well. A very nice place. Still have family there by the name of Tull, almond farmers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society

also to consult are the political thoughts of its most authoritative proponent, George Bernard Shaw. Fabian Socialism had a profound effect on Woodrow Wilson, as iterated in his "The New Freedom". He is the founder of the American Progressive movement.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Oh Brother!

Sushil,

Most people here would wish (and act) for a better world, a world 2.0 if you will, where we live with respect and equality for all living things within the limits of the environment.

It would have been interesting to see such a sustainable development; maybe our present capabilities would not have evolved for hundreds of years hence, but we would reach that point still having Haast's Eagles, Tasmanian Tigers (heck, even Tasmanian Aboriginies for that matter!), Paradise Parrots etc, etc, but without Nuclear Fission (although we would have Nuclear Fusion), without the waste and rape of the land, without all the wars and conflict, etc, and without all the billions of people today overloading this tiny blue speck in space.

If I see another person, anywhere out to the horizon, during the course of a day, I turn around and walk the other way because of the overcrowding - the idea of living cheek by jowl with billions! of my extended family, and countrymen, dodging dollops of sh*t piled willy-nilly in the streets is something that I find personally disgusting - and yet still they *you* breed.

It's not Industrial Society that is the root cause of the problem - It's people.

To use your own analogy - if a baddie shoots a poor innocent with a gun - do we arrest the gun and throw it in jail?! - or do we rightly place the blame with the no-gooder who pulls the trigger? - exactly!

The problem is not even an environmental one - its an economic one.

Not only are we running a huge ponzi scheme (fed by unsustainable population growth) .... see here to scare yourself sh*tless: http://www.usdebtclock.org/#
But the true cost (the substitution cost of recreating lost ecosystems and resouces / restoring original quality) is not even accounted for - and it's many, many, many times the listed debt (and not even physically possible in some cases - "Time Machines" and "Jurassic Park" being the stuff of movies still).
It's enough to drive you to drink - Tea anyone? (Do you good 'ol folks at the 'party' have any sustainable Earl Grey? I love Earl Grey!)

Without accounting for the true cost of Industrial actions (i.e. the cost of using waterways as rubbish drains, lost ecosystem functions, inherent right to existence of nature, etc), Industrial Society indeed has a monumentally detrimental impact on the world, especially when multiplied by the billions and billions of people here.

But it's the people that are wielding the tool (Industry), not the tool itself.
If it was used in a different way, where waste = food (process-wise, not in the Soylent Green sense!), then a sustainable existence is possible.

As has been pointed out by many of the posters here, extinctions have taken place in the past (ranging from dinosaurs, early civilisations, ancient european forests at the hand of man, to Haast's Eagle, etc) - and all of these are prior to Industrial Development.

Throughout all of this time to the present, has there ever even been one day without conflict, murder, war?
How many quadrillions have been spent on murder and destruction?
How many gazillions (yup! that's a much bigger number) of precious resources have been wasted to this end? What about the many-fold true cost to the environment?
And yet still they breed.

We don't need some Global Nanny Feifdom, Ruling Class, or Religious Zealots telling us how to live.
Only when man overcomes the darkness of man, will we turn the corner to a better world - if we don't suffer the consequences of our actions and go extinct ourselves first.


Sushil, you should be the change you want to see in the world - lead by example - but you cannot force your beliefs to control others.
Your calls to cease all Industrial activity immediately (save for subsistence), I fear, are more naievity than visionary.

What of Maslow?, and self-actualisation?, and manifesting creative energy?, let alone the journey to enlightenment!

TRUE. we are heading for an environmental brick wall at a hundred miles an hour.
BUT. man, must live by the agreed laws of man - not some god-bothering terrorists.
Man must wake up |8.| (as has been the task since the year dot anyway).

Terrorism, in any form is evil. Nothing justifies it. Nothing.
You seem to find nothing wrong with an Islamic country like Iran accquiring Nuclear Weapons - even when they themselves have stated their aims to wipe another country, of sentinent human beings, off the face of the planet?! Son, you are on the wrong side of the coin here.
Hell, Islam is still warring over who gets to be the grand poobahs, Sunnis, or Shiites! All the while, fundamentalist nutters regard 'non-believers' as 'Infidels', 'Kafir'.
I for one, don't wish to bow down 5 times a day, head up b*m, with 5,000 of my closest local fellow robed worshippers on a 100*F + day.

Be careful you don't read as a terrorism apologist - with your ancestory, you'd be far better to take the non-violence path of Ghandi.


Sushil, there is much in your thought process that I, and many others here, concerned with fighting the good fight, take exception to - you would do well for your cause to take some of it on-board, expanding your self-awareness, and refining your message.

Though, not wishing to go through your premise bit by bit (others have attempted some of that), a couple of points:

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.

* Thinking, is a first order delusion,
* Emotions, are second order delusions,
The effect that Industrial Society has on these is irrelevant.

The only game in town is knowing. Call it what you will, pure perception of truth, Buddha Dharma (Buddha after all just means - man[just like you and me] who woke up - and the best part is they won't lop your head off, or keep your women folk tucked away in an uneducated room if ya don't!), Enlightenment, One-ness.
Always has been, always will.
It is subject to, and of life itself, only - not dictator, nor zealot, nor even well-meaning fruitcake |=)|
Perhaps this is what you meant (Zen), but just c*cked-it-up slightly when you said:

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking

As for:

Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.

Could not disagree more.
If you mean millions and millions of people spread from *rs*hole-to-breakfast-time, then yes - otherwise, it may be one of the planet's great hopes.

People think the atmosphere is the primary concern - but there's also the 'thin brown line' and the 'purity of water' that are of critical, urgent concern.

Since the advent of 'Agriculture' and 'Agrarian Society' (which may stem back at least 12,000 years - if discoveries at Gobeckli Tepe in 1994 are any indication), hardly one grain of fertile soil has been formed in these disturbed landscapes (never mind your "killed millions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt????").
Overpopulation, and urbanisation of farmland, runs unchecked like a cancer upon the land. And yet still they *you* breed.

FFS - STOP BREEDING!!

Housing people in a smaller land footprint in tall skyscraper cities, with solar panel cladding, with wind turbines, water harvesting, and vertical food cropping, connected with low land use, high speed, high capacity public transport is one of our few hopes. Heck, we could even include additional falcon nesting to help keep the feral pigeon populations in check!

Subject : EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

Sorry my friend, but 'Emotional Intelligence' can be learned over time, and comes with human evolution.
Look no further than the nearest dog for proof - the fact that they have learned and evolved over time to respond to human communication (including non-verbal cues) demonstrates EQ, and is the difference between a dog and a wolf.

Subject : CHANGE IN VISUAL SPEED OVER THE YEARS

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Disagree. As far as your natural speed experiences go, perhaps things moved a lot faster than you realise - (if you've ever walked through walls, existed, and moved about in different forms of pure energy, been to spirit realms, experienced one-ness, or seen "Dry Rain" etc - you'll know what I mean, teehee. Heck, or maybe Zog just missed witnessing Thag get struck on the *rs* by a bolt of lightning!)

Today the entire world is collectively destroying the environment with Industrial Activity.......But the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by the west.

Western Civilization suffered from total lack of foresight.

You seem to be caught up in 'west bashing'.
It's easy to put sh*t on things, much harder to man-up and do better yourself.

I'd wager that avarice and greed is by far, not an exclusive feature of the west only.
In fact the corruption, exploitation, self-serving greed, and downright lack of humanity evident in some developing countries, let alone lack of environmental regard, far exceeds anything in the modern west, and is reminiscent of a throw-back to much darker days.

Let's see *you* come up with some advancement, some progress, that is better AND - truly sustainable ......

(Despite my general positivity, and sunny outlook) - knowing what I do about the forces of investment and control working against you, and the inherent fallability, and self-preserving impetus and greed of people, I won't be holding my breath waiting to see it - and this is with the historically unprecedented advantage of available technology, giving the opportunity to "leap-frog" all the previous environmental, and sustainability mistakes.

While we're waiting, how about in the meantime, FFS - STOP BREEDING!!!


Sushil, your heart seems in the right place, but, I've seen less holes in a fishing net, than your arguements .....
- all the best of luck anyway (I'd say stay even - but following the middle way, may be more helpful for you, and reaching a wider audience, and gaining more traction).....

Here's two irrefutable reasons why 'everything is exactly as it should be'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRop_ZMwo0
http://www.supercars.net/cars/644.html

Perhaps, instead of all this 'thinking' of your arguements, you may be better off spending your remaining days engaged in physical labour
- This may be the perfect rebuilding project for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Taller_Buddha_of_Bamiyan_before_and_after_destruction.jpg


We are all brothers and sisters - wishing for a better world.


Truly, All the best,
Kind regards,
Chosun :gh:

 

[sushil_yadav]

If I see another person, anywhere out to the horizon, during the course of a day, I turn around and walk the other way because of the overcrowding - the idea of living cheek by jowl with billions! of my extended family, and countrymen, dodging dollops of sh*t piled willy-nilly in the streets is something that I find personally disgusting - and yet still they *you* breed.

And yet still they breed.

Overpopulation, and urbanisation of farmland, runs unchecked like a cancer upon the land. And yet still they *you* breed.

FFS - STOP BREEDING!!

While we're waiting, how about in the meantime, FFS - STOP BREEDING!!!

You have mentioned breeding many times in your post.......You have also mentioned " they *you* " which suggests you are referring to the East [India / China].


The East is not responsible for overpopulation.......Overbreeding by The East is not responsible for overpopulation.......This is a false propaganda of the west and a blatant lie......The cause of overpopulation is Industrialization ......And since Industrialization was started by the West and promoted by the West all over the world, It is the West in fact that is responsible for overpopulation in this world.

Industrialization is the cause of both overconsumerism and overpopulation.........Overconsumerism and Overpopulation are by-products/ consequences of Industrialization.

If Industrialization had not happened there would be no overconsumerism and no overpopulation.

India and China have large populations today not because of overbreeding but simply because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions........What was the population of West / Europe 2000 years ago.......Was it comparable to the population of India and China of that time?????

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.......Not after Industrialization.

Before industrialization families all over the world used to have 4 - 12 children [and even more], the entire world was overbreeding - even the west was overbreeding, and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD.......After industrialization family size reduced drastically, today families are having much fewer children, 1 - 3 per family and yet world population increased to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

Before industrialization diseases caused by virus and bacteria used to control population.......harsh climatic conditions kept population under control......shortage of food and water kept population under control.......higher death rate and shorter lifespan kept population under control.......despite all the overbreeding all over the world.

If industrialization had not happened total world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

The East is not responsible for overpopulation.......Overbreeding by The East is not responsible for overpopulation.......This is a false propaganda of the west and a blatant lie.

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Moreover, it is not population that destroys environment, it is consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society that destroys environment.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society........It cannot sustain an Industrial Society..........A sustainable Industrial Society is an impossibility........You cannot save environment by destroying more of it........You cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

This planet would have been in very fine condition today if Industrial Society had not come into existence.......There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism........Millions of other species would be thriving on this planet.....Man would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land but marine ecology would have been almost 100% safe......Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste would not exist.

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.........There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth, the biggest act of destruction on earth.

 

[Bird_Bill]

Height of Insanity!

Would not call your post that. Hypocrisy is the term that would be used.
"Height of hypocrisy"....Thats it.
Hell bent on using technology of hated industrialization to make post.
To get point across.
Passionately embracing it,
smothering it with wet, sloppy kisses.
Hypocrisy.

 

[sushil_yadav]

Would not call your post that. Hypocrisy is the term that would be used.
"Height of hypocrisy"....Thats it.
Hell bent on using technology of hated industrialization to make post.
To get point across.
Passionately embracing it,
smothering it with wet, sloppy kisses.
Hypocrisy.

Mr. Genius, Let me give you some advice...... One should go through the entire thread before posting so as to avoid posting something that has already been replied to earlier.......If you had gone through all 7 pages of this thread you would know that this issue has already been discussed before.

Did I ever claim that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment?????

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.

Computers are being used because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????



Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this doesn't save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a non-industrial society environment gets saved automatically....one does not have to make efforts to save environment.

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire society is impossible.

There is no industrial society which limits its activity to just food, clothing, shelter and does not produce consumer goods.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth we will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive/ hardly caused any destruction......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.



A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that destroy environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.......It should not continue for even one more day......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

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Coming back to computers and hypocrisy .........Who is the hypocrite.......You or I ?????

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

Why do you breathe the Air?
Why do you drink the Water?
Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.


In the absence of Nature your grandfather wouldn't have lived.
In the absence of Nature your father wouldn't have lived.
In the absence of Nature you wouldn't have lived.

Show some respect to Nature.



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 

[Bird_Bill]

Problem is sushil_yadav, you post as an indictment of crime.
With that crime, comes punishment.
My grand-daughter, Guilty?, Punished?....No.
The unborn, Guilty?, Punished?....No
All innocents, Guilty?, Punished?....No
There is no compromise here.
No meeting of an agreement.
I will be hard on this.
I will be dull on this.
I will be remorseless on this.

sushil_yadav, you now know where I stand.

 

[sushil_yadav]

Endless hair splitting is a disease and insanity of Industrial Society.

Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a disease and insanity of Industrial Society.

This is what happens when you build a reason-based Industrial Society which first creates the problem and then engages in endless debate and argument.

Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.

Trillions of Pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another Harmful Waste created by Industrial Society .........just like Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

Take the issue of abortion.......Half of America is in favour of abortion , half of America is against abortion......The two sides are engaged in endless discussion, debate and argument .......The jokers will continue debating for ever......Industrial Society first created the problem......Mass abortions were not possible before industrialization......And then it engages in endless discussion which once again is a creation of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.

Same is true for environment......Industrial Society first destroyed environment by destroying more of it, by destroying it for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter......And is now engaged in endless discussion, debate and argument which once again is a creation of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.

 

[fugl]

Relax Sushil,
similar things have happened before (see extracts from BBC website below)

Although the Cretaceous-Tertiary (or K-T) extinction event is the most well-known because it wiped out the dinosaurs, a series of other mass extinction events has occurred throughout the history of the Earth, some even more devastating than K-T. Mass extinctions are periods in Earth's history when abnormally large numbers of species die out simultaneously or within a limited time frame. The most severe occurred at the end of the Permian period when 96% of all species perished. This along with K-T are two of the Big Five mass extinctions, each of which wiped out at least half of all species. Many smaller scale mass extinctions have occurred, indeed the disappearance of many animals and plants at the hands of man in prehistoric, historic and modern times will eventually show up in the fossil record as mass extinctions.

The environment that conservationists get very excited about saving only exists because of previous extinctions.

Nothing to get excited about. Evolution will fill the niches left by the current extinctions, a new bio-diversity will develop and then most of that will get extinguished by the next extinction event and then it will start again and again and again.

It's only a matter of time.

Ah, that's what I like to see, my 2 favorite gurus at each other's throats.

Cut-&-paste away fellows, always good to hear from you.

 

[lashinala]

Sushil, there is no such thing as a human society that produces only food clothing and shelter...but I think you know that (try naming one that produces absolutely nothing else). Even Neanderthals produced other products. ...maybe even animals.
This argument is suspect at best.
Abortion debate is a product of education. If a culture doesn't know abortion is an option, it doesn't do it (if no one knows how, or even knows it's an option). Same holds true for knowing how to reach the moon though...very expensive to hold that knowledge for long (see US). If we went to only food clothing and shelter we would lose all knowledge gained and start the process anew in a few generations. More damage...more environmental hazards. ('wash, rinse, repeat' as we say...a cyclical pattern) Once again, it's very expensive to raise a child.
No...going...back. Look forward and think ahead.

 

[sushil_yadav]

Sushil, there is no such thing as a human society that produces only food clothing and shelter...but I think you know that (try naming one that produces absolutely nothing else). Even Neanderthals produced other products. ...maybe even animals.
This argument is suspect at best.

When I say food, clothing and shelter it means an absence of Industrial Consumer Goods.......It doesn't mean there will be nothing else in society.......Other things and activities have existed in all pre-industrial / non-industrial societies.....Agrarian Society primarily limited itself to food, clothing and shelter but that doesn't mean there was nothing else in Agrarian Society......It also made material goods but these were very few and since they were made without using Industrial Machines / Industrial Activity, they caused very limited environmental destruction.......Agrarian Society also had Art, Culture, Entertainment, Sports, Philosophy, Spirituality.

In fact real Art and Culture existed only in pre-industrial / non-industrial societies.......In Industrial Society all activities become destructive, even Art and Culture........Industrial Society has built millions of buildings for Art and Culture which led to killing of millions of Trees and killing of millions of acres of fertile soil by cement, concrete and asphalt........Industrial Society has manufactured millions of tonnes of equipment for use in Art and Culture whose production by Industrial methods has led to destruction of environment, destruction of animals, trees, air, water and land directly or indirectly.........In Industrial Society millions of Artists travel for millions of kilometers all over the world by Rail, Road, Ships and Aeroplanes for Cultural Shows which again leads to destruction of environment....directly or indirectly.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

This thread just got even stranger.

 

[angusmcoatup]

STATEMENT OF INTENT.

This order takes effect as from the Autumnal Equinox, AD 2012, northern hemisphere, planet Earth.
All weapons with moving parts, electronic integration, tectonic and sound devices, and sources of pollution must be dismantled and destroyed. -surgical .

The failure to cooperate will lead to prompt and utter destruction. .View attachment 404996

Just to be clear, can I still use my bat detector?

 

[sushil_yadav]

............................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
............................................................................

A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

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All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

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If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

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Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

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This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

............................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.


<SNIP>


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

So what do you suggest?

 

[birdboybowley]

Oh no, someone's dug him up again and put 10 rupees in the slot......

 

[MJB]

Oh no, someone's dug him up again and put 10 rupees in the slot......

"We're doomed, ah tell ye Captain Mainwaring, doooooomed!"
MJB
PS The Moderators might tell us if we've just read the longest post ever on Bird Forum...unless you know different(ly):-C

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

"We're doomed, ah tell ye Captain Mainwaring, doooooomed!"
MJB
PS The Moderators might tell us if we've just read the longest post ever on Bird Forum...unless you know different(ly):-C

The mods deleted probably the most bizarre post ever on BF from earlier today (hence my response a few posts back). It really was a cracker - wish I'd saved it. It wasn't even from Sushil either!

 

[birdboybowley]

The mods deleted probably the most bizarre post ever on BF from earlier today (hence my response a few posts back). It really was a cracker - wish I'd saved it. It wasn't even from Sushil either!

Oh please summarize!
Edit - scrub that......wouldn't be the post by 'alice-I'mafreak-brooke' by any chance was it?? Hmmmmmm........it's quoted in #173

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Oh please summarize!
Edit - scrub that......wouldn't be the post by 'alice-I'mafreak-brooke' by any chance was it?? Hmmmmmm........it's quoted in #173

Yes it was, although I think the original was a bit longer. It did seem to be warning of the prospect of inter-galactic warfare. Perhaps it's more of a risk than we realised.