2014 UK Orchids (1 Viewer)

[rmielcarek]

A question for the Epipactis experts on here.

I understand that both Violet and Broad-leaved helleborines can show a purple base to the stem. Is there any significance to the colour and shape of the tiny sheathing leaf an inch or so above the base?

Rich M

And what do people think of these leaves; is it reasonable for Broad-leaved to have these violet streaks in the leaf or is it a sign of introgression with Violet?

Rich M

 

[leptochila]

Yes, we thought the same about the very slight pinkish tinge, but it is certainly close.

I thought that it might be interesting to compare a couple of photos which Elaine took at what I think is the same site as Steve's - in 2012. As Steve says, it did not flower last year. Not sure if this is the same plant, but we tentatively recorded it as var. viridiflora.

Martin

Without seeing it in the flesh (which we can't now do since your plant is from last year), it's hard to be 100% sure. It certainly looks pretty good. You could say the inside of the hypochile looks a little brownish but I'm not sure whether that's pigment or not. As Rich says, classically the hypochile should be completely pale green. The one I found the other day is the best candidate I've seen so far (not boasting!). The inside of the hypochile was fresh granny smith green and every part of the plant was yellowish green including the base of the stem and pedicels. I think I found another one later on that day that is much more accessible but is yet to fully flower so I'll post some good close ups of that at the end of this week.

Mike
Mike

 

[muba]

And what do people think of these leaves; is it reasonable for Broad-leaved to have these violet streaks in the leaf or is it a sign of introgression with Violet?

Rich M

Introgression does seem to be a reasonable hypothesis from the violet shade. Does (or did) VH grow near, and what about a shot of the flowers?

Steve

 

[leptochila]

Elan Bog orchids

14 spikes and 3 non-flowering in a flush near Pont ar Elan where there were 35 spikes last year and 9 spikes further up the valley on the upper plateau bog where it was far drier than last year. The former were very small and quite ropey. Also found a single big spike nearer the road at Pont ar Elan sat alone on bare mud in an area heavily trampled by cattle (see below). I do think Bog orchids like a bit of disturbance. All were intensely difficult to spot in the strong sunlight however! The photos below should illustrate that point.

Also tried a couple of other possible flushes nearby but no luck.

Mike

 

[leptochila]

Loooking through my photos from Lindisfarne last week this Pyramidal Orchid seemed odd. I couldn't put my finger on it until I realised that all the individual flowers are rotated by about 180 degrees; they are flowering upside down. Would this make insect pollination difficult or do they have special pollinators there?

I've seen this on plants at my local site and it happens when the flowers fail to twist through 180 degrees (as is normal) rather than the other way round. I think plants like this are known as resupinate.

Mike

 

[muba]

I've seen this on plants at my local site and it happens when the flowers fail to twist through 180 degrees (as is normal) rather than the other way round. I think plants like this are known as resupinate.

Mike

Would this be limited to Pyramidals, or could other species also show this ?

 

[Simon1953]

Some great BLHs at Sheepleas (Surrey) this afternoon.

 

[Ghostly Vision]

No Sean. Orchidwise, apart from a few CSO there are only BLH in those woods - as far as I have noticed.

I'd be most interested to visit that site if possible. Could you email me with details or can we arrange to meet there?

Cheers

Sean

 

[Simon1953]

... Also E. leptochila in full flower.

 

[rmielcarek]

Introgression does seem to be a reasonable hypothesis from the violet shade. Does (or did) VH grow near, and what about a shot of the flowers?

Steve

There are a few Violets a few yards away.

There are 4 plants growing within a few inches of each other, and another larger one a few feet away. Three of them are shown in post #859, and post #877 relates to 2 of them.

One of the 5 is still in bud but all the others essentially show similar flowers, quite clean and wide open but with quite rough green bosses. The attached are from 2 of the plants.

However the leaves are different on each plant; a couple have a broad, almost circular bottom leaf whilst another has green, relatively narrow leaves whilst the one still in bud has quite dark, narrow leaves similar to Violet.

Rich

 

[Ghostly Vision]

There are a few Violets a few yards away.

There are 4 plants growing within a few inches of each other, and another larger one a few feet away. Three of them are shown in post #859, and post #877 relates to 2 of them.

One of the 5 is still in bud but all the others essentially show similar flowers, quite clean and wide open but with quite rough green bosses. The attached are from 2 of the plants.

However the leaves are different on each plant; a couple have a broad, almost circular bottom leaf whilst another has green, relatively narrow leaves whilst the one still in bud has quite dark, narrow leaves similar to Violet.

Rich

Hi Rich

The left hand one looks VERY much like it could be a hybrid.

I always think that on VH the outer lip looks small compared to the inner one, a morphological feature impossible to misrepresent in photos, and which your photo shows. But the colour is clearly not that of VH, which never shows purplish in the flower.

That's two places I need to visit!

Sean

ps reference your sheathing leaf question: - when you ask a question I know it is going to be difficult! But I'll check my literature and see if there is an answer somewhere. My guess is that it is irrelevant, as when that leaf is produced, reliance on host mycorrhiza is at its maximum, and therefore the likelihood of chlorophyll-free leaves is high. As photosynthesis develops and increases, leaves get greener, even at the base. Once the plant is fully developed, do the basal leaves get greener? They do in VH from my experience.

 

[muba]

Some great BLHs at Sheepleas (Surrey) this afternoon.

That purple colouration is new to me. Very intense

 

[leptochila]

... Also E. leptochila in full flower.

What a cracker!!

Mike

 

[Simon1953]

That purple colouration is new to me. Very intense

Yes, it was new to me too. an extraordinarily deep colour to the flowers and also on some of the lower leaves too - but none on the stem. There were quite a few plants of this dark form as well as 'white' and almost green ones too. They were almost all in an open grassy area with little shade from trees.

 

[rmielcarek]

BLH pollinia

It's funny how I miss stuff while in the field and then notice it when I get home and sort through my photos.

This pic seems to show the hazards faced by BLH pollinia;
1. on the left one is stuck onto a sepal
2. on the right a pair are stuck on the rostellum
3. on the right at the bottom it looks like they have almost been extracted, but not quite, and left hanging over the edge.

Rich M

 

[rmielcarek]

ps reference your sheathing leaf question: - when you ask a question I know it is going to be difficult! But I'll check my literature and see if there is an answer somewhere. My guess is that it is irrelevant, as when that leaf is produced, reliance on host mycorrhiza is at its maximum, and therefore the likelihood of chlorophyll-free leaves is high. As photosynthesis develops and increases, leaves get greener, even at the base. Once the plant is fully developed, do the basal leaves get greener? They do in VH from my experience.

Interesting Sean.

The bright violet sheathing leaf in the middle picture on post #877 (and the bright purple stem base on the left) are both on the mature plant shown in the 2 left pictures on post #859. I had taken that to be a Broad-leaved but....

The greener sheathing leaf on the right of post #877 comes from the plant in the middle and right of post #859.

Rich

 

[Leitrimlives]

I'm on a work trip to Scotland end of July and looking at a day off with the thoughts of trying for Irish Lady's Tresses. I'll have limited time so won't want to go off the mainland. If anyone can advise me on a precise location for one of the mainland sites if 'public' I'd be very grateful. I've looked on Hebrides before but too early I think. I'm assuming around 2 Aug would be about perfect according to Simon's book. (Glad you have found the forum Simon, and note your points about site details, it's all about site conservation and knowing what's growing where etc to hopefully put effective management in place.). Often find these 'secret site' are overrun with dogs and kids on bikes causing far more damage than anything else....)

Thank you for any information

Matthew

Hi Matt,

Just in case you are over in Ireland, Irish Lady's Tresses are out in good numbers (quite early, first seen 6th July) in a few lakes in Co. Mayo, and small numbers on the lake we study (Lough Allen, Co. Leitrim).

Love to hear from other people who are interested in this orchid (and to know how they are doing in Scotland) as we are tring to record numbers and locations of the orchid in Ireland (hard to get around to all of the lakes!).

Regards,

Fran
LoughAllenBasin.com

 

[dsskipper]

Hi Matt,

Just in case you are over in Ireland, Irish Lady's Tresses are out in good numbers (quite early, first seen 6th July) in a few lakes in Co. Mayo, and small numbers on the lake we study (Lough Allen, Co. Leitrim).

Love to hear from other people who are interested in this orchid (and to know how they are doing in Scotland) as we are tring to record numbers and locations of the orchid in Ireland (hard to get around to all of the lakes!).

Regards,

Fran
LoughAllenBasin.com

I am from Ireland but currently living in England. I will be on holidays in Cork/Kerry for the next two weeks...this will be my first trip back to Ireland since becoming interested in wildflowers a few years ago.

Does anybody have any local information re. orchids in the Cork/Kerry area or know where I might find out more? I'm particularly keen to see Irish Lady's Tresses ...

Donal

 

[Chris Hind]

Irish Lady's-tresses Request

I would be most grateful for any detailed information on locations for this on the Scottish mainland. I plan to head up there at the start of August.

Chris

 

[Bodhyfryd]

Irish Lady's-tresses Request

I would be most grateful for any detailed information on locations for this on the Scottish mainland. I plan to head up there at the start of August.

Chris

I have sent you a PM, Chris.

Martin