Bushfire - Australia (1 Viewer)

[Andy Adcock]

I think there are no comments here as people just don't have any words for what's happening there, it's apocolyptic...............

 

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

I think there are no comments here as people just don't have any words for what's happening there, it's apocolyptic...............

Too true Andy, too true.

I've been looking at https://www.abc.net.au/news/ the Oz equivalent of the BBC and it simply defies belief what's going on.

I know Chosun is clear to say that global warming isn't implicated in this immense tragedy but the amount of coal which is being mined (largely for export to China) shows the nation's politicians have their heads in the sand (or the money trough). I suspect a major political shift will happen next year (election year).

I know plenty of UK firefighters and they're aching at the suffering of their fellow fire-fighters (who are volunteers). I've also seen plenty of posts of solidarity on Facebook, which I echo.

Very best wishes Chosun.

 

[Chosun Juan]

I think there are no comments here as people just don't have any words for what's happening there, it's apocolyptic...............

Too true Andy, too true.

I've been looking at https://www.abc.net.au/news/ the Oz equivalent of the BBC and it simply defies belief what's going on.

I know Chosun is clear to say that global warming isn't implicated in this immense tragedy but the amount of coal which is being mined (largely for export to China) shows the nation's politicians have their heads in the sand (or the money trough). I suspect a major political shift will happen next year (election year).

I know plenty of UK firefighters and they're aching at the suffering of their fellow fire-fighters (who are volunteers). I've also seen plenty of posts of solidarity on Facebook, which I echo.

Very best wishes Chosun.

Thank you all - I know there are many sending good thoughts and prayers :t:
- I'm not really expecting commentary, as like you said - what can you really say?

I've been watching international news coverage - so it's on the global radar now.

The Commonwealth Government has been reactive rather than proactive. I may have more to say on that later - those that think I'm off the planet may think I've gone quite mad
PM Scott Morrison has shown himself to be a buffoon extraordinaire ........

I've been banging on about the other causes of this disaster because it's all too easy to find a convenient scapegoat (CC) and think that's the end of it - but it's not - not by a long shot.

For sure things like coal and other mining have impact - but not in the ways people think. It's the water taken out of the landscape, the aquifers cut through and destroyed, the hydrological cycle ruined that dries the land, dries the vegetation, affects the biology and stops lush, moist soil formation processes, and shuts down the daily transpiration cycle. It's the roads, gutters, culverts, storm water drains and pipes that also ruin a properly functioning landscape - how many of those can you see around you?

I want to be crystal clear about this - before British invasion, Australia was the most magnificently efficient landscape in the world. It had to be. As the driest Continent on earth, water couldn't be stored in vast open bodies of water where it would evaporate under the harsh sun and heat. It was stored in the soil like a great big sponge, so that even in drought rivers flowed, wetlands thrived, and moisture was available to the vegetation. It just recycled endlessly. There are archelogical records of decades long droughts, and yet fauna, flora, and Aboriginal people survived through, and thrived beyond that. Most of that is ruined now.

Also we are seeing the confluence of drought, some longer term heat cycles (the Indian Ocean Dipole is sitting at record levels), and some adverse weather conditions. This combined with the degradation and destruction of the land, and woeful leadership has combined to this out of control situation. We have water over extracted from the landscape for profit. One of the most magnificent large scale emphemeral wetland systems in the world, old growth grassy box gum woodlands and native grasslands - has been drained, dried and degraded. 1000's of kilometres of bone dry riverbed, 100's of years old ancient old growth trees dying - an area the size of France and Germany combined stripped bare, dried, and baked oven hot. Imagine how much heat a concrete carpark the size of France and Germany would generate in 40°C temperatures ?! Even things like the feral Red Fox predating Superb Lyre birds, and feral cats predating our small earthworking animals also play their part.

I know that many people here on BF care about nature and conservation.

It's about loving the land - genuine love for your mother.

How do you think the traditional custodians feel seeing all this raping and pillaging, death and destruction ....... ? :-C

What about the lush Gondwanan rainforest which may never return, the birds and the animals, oh the birds and the animals - such agony and tragedy .........

I also want to be crystal clear again - this is coming to the rest of the world.

You may have started from a more fertile, lusher baseline - but you've all gone exactly the same way. It's just a matter of time. Already in recent years we've seen unprecedented fires in Britain, and parts of Europe, and the Americas. It is just the beginning and it's got stuff all to do with CC.

Capitalism in it's current form and the glorified pursuit of the almighty dollar stand condemned.

I think many of you will find this article v-e-r-y interesting.

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/dan...mpG7qbwLkw6fSbmCvZp5v3Nw9lEHLApXJRVRq13xIf_vI






Chosun :gh:

 

[snowyowl]

I'm pleased to hear that Canada has sent almost 100 experienced firefighters to Australia to help with the wild fires. I know that this is only a drop in the bucket but every little bit helps. Gov. is talking about sending more assets to help. There aren't any specifics but I speculate about more personnel or perhaps waterbombers? I'm sure that many other countries are doing something similar.

 

[Chosun Juan]

‘The mood is sombre’: Scientists warn of the bushfire’s lasting impacts on wildlife

This situation is moving so fast, that areas spoken about just a week or two ago have now doubled. Some estimates are putting the figures at:
~ 10 Million hectares burnt. That's 100,000km2, an area of ~320km x 320km (or 200miles in one direction x 200miles in a perpendicular direction) ....... basically we've just completely burnt Iceland, or 3/4 of England.
~ 1 Billion animals dead :-C
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...38xf686ba3ydauhR6Gg-NgpEFjRGN8paQ0kF3fuVXODJA

There's also big energies of hope floating about - this amazing photo was taken by Rose Fletcher (not sure if that is BF Rose) at the start of the year at sunrise - she has asked that it is shared widely.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...687222714&anchor_composer=false&ref=bookmarks

As I write this there's a bizarre thunderstorm where the lightning bolts are out numbering rain drops ...... I think it's time for a raindance This from elder Whanjulla Imbala - The 2nd song is about "the water singing in the wind, the lightning and rain", mob up that way are "the original water protectors"
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...t_reply&notif_id=1563192364519115&ref=m_notif

Of course, there's a slightly different take on it too
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BeDylD8dV7U





Chosun :gh:

 

[PYRTLE]

This suggestion makes me feel even sadder for the nightmare devastation that is taking place.....and perhaps answers part of CJ 's opening post in this thread.... (sic) " how did they start"

https://t.co/IqPxKH77IE?amp=1

The thought that some human beings may have started some of these bush fires, not unheard of I appreciate, but what dire results. No doubt that drought and higher temperatures magnify the disaster. What punishment can ever match the crime if any persons are proven guilty of arson.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

What punishment can ever match the crime if any persons are proven guilty of arson.

Jeanne D’arc springs to mind

 

[mjh73]

The devil is in the detail:

"This fire season, police have taken legal action - ranging from cautions to charges - against 180 people including 24 people charged over deliberately lit bushfires, 53 who allegedly failed to comply with a total fire ban and 47 who allegedly discarded a lit cigarette or match.

Speaking at RFS headquarters on Tuesday, NSW Police Force Deputy Commissioner Gary Worboys APM said police were monitoring the start of fires, whether intentional or accidental.

"I know that all of those people aren't [alleged] arsonists in a sense, I know a lot of them were doing things like using fireworks or lighting fires to camp or cook food or young children, in fact, that got the benefits of the Young Offenders Act and quite rightly so," he said.

 

[mjh73]

This is a time of year when our National Parks and coastal areas have significant numbers of people (with varying levels of common sense!).

More broadly when there is a "total fire ban" declared, using a portable gas bottle camping BBQ or stove, for example, is an offence and even a fixed BBQ is only 'legal' if you have a >10L of water immediately available nearby along with a few other requirements.

 

[PYRTLE]

What then, constitutes a " deliberately lit bushfire "? Is it lighting a camp fire or actually setting fire to the undergrowth ( grass, shrubs and trees )?

 

[Chosun Juan]

What then, constitutes a " deliberately lit bushfire "? Is it lighting a camp fire or actually setting fire to the undergrowth ( grass, shrubs and trees )?

My understanding is that "a deliberately lit bushfire" is arson - this according to the article I posted in the OP constitutes ~13% of all fires. A further ~37% are classed as suspicious - ie. more than likely deliberate arson that is not totally provable. Disobeying Total Fire Bans by lighting a campfire that doesn't cause a bushfire for example will see you charged (but not with arson).

Further to that ~33% on top of that half already of all fires deliberately lit/suspicious, are accidently caused by man /man-made infrastructure /equipment.

There is an addition to the very small percentage (~6%) of fires started by lightning, and that is when these fires reach conflagration stage in catastrophic fire conditions (a fire rating of 100 or more - this season has seen ratings of 200 ! :eek! , that they create their own weather. Pyro-cumulonimbus clouds reach so high that they create their own dry lightning storms which can start further fires. Multiple spot fires can be thrown kilometers ahead of the firefront and not necessarily in the direction of prevailing winds. Fire tornadoes, and tornado-like downdraughts are also created. It was one of these that generated winds at ground level so strong as to flip a 8-10 ton firetruck over killing occupants inside.





Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Fire chiefs demand Royal Commission into Bushfire Crisis

Any Royal Commission into this crisis must also include a Royal Commission into water use and over-extraction and destruction of hydrology throughout the whole country ...... imho, and that's just the start ....

https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...V6c49t5BkJEsC6kf18Q2HV9JHgEwdA7tcv5MiKxj4FQlg




Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Thoughts of Healing ......



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...0883&id=367268523352486&fs=0&focus_composer=0




Chosun :gh:

 

[Andy Adcock]

As an aside, this disaster has reminded me of the woeful geographical grasp of many Brits. I'm up in Queensland (nr Cairns) but still getting concerned messages from (some) friends asking if I'm OK and whether the fires are close by.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have travelled as we have and it's certainly not a flaw unique to Brits.

Perhaps their error was down to this......

https://www.politifact.com/facebook...l-visualization-australia-fires-misrepresent/

 

[PYRTLE]

Thank you CJ for your reply to my query.

P

 

[Chosun Juan]

Thank you CJ for your reply to my query.

P

I have to confess that I have my 'suspicions' about quite a lot of this 'crisis'. I suspect that some of it is 'manufactured'. :eek!:

I cannot stand watching the news:
Rolling coverage
File footage everywhere
Armageddon like background wallpapers behind newsreaders
Mindless opinion replayed over and over
Junior reporters on the scene without facts, saying I think this, I think that, it looks like this, it looks like that - who the f cares ! :storm:
Fear mongering - there were some brief showers that came through the South-east corner (admittedly not enough to put the fires out) and instead of saying hallelujah ! the news was blanketed with messaging saying what a huge problem it was.

The people that seem happiest to volunteer their services are bulldozer operators !

The hot dry lightning storm that passed over Sydney about 48 hours ago apparently sparked a fire deep in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney (one of the few unburnt areas remaining). The next day was a very mild ~ 23°C with only up to gentle breezes ...... why the heck wasn't this nascent fire water bombed out of existence ?!! Even earlier today it was listed as a mere 1 hectare in size, and yet now this evening it is listed as out of control - with a strong Southerly wind change expected in the wee hours overnight.

All this, and yet the Fire and Emergency Services say they have every resource necessary ........ :stuck:

DING DING !!!





Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Very annoying that we can't get an official map of areas burnt /burning in Australia in total (you have to piece the state pictures together). It looks like the total area is now equivalent to over 80% of England burnt ......

At least the lightning started small fire in the Northern Blue Mountains is under control. Larger ones are still not fully controlled.

Interesting questions raised in this article:
"Hunter, hunted: when the world catches on fire, how do predators respond?"
https://theconversation.com/hunter-...tches-on-fire-how-do-predators-respond-126280
Hopefully the Wedgies can polish off more than just a few foxes.



Chosun :gh:

 

[John Cantelo]

Not everyone is lucky enough to have travelled as we have and it's certainly not a flaw unique to Brits.

Perhaps their error was down to this......

https://www.politifact.com/facebook...l-visualization-australia-fires-misrepresent/

No, it's not a flaw unique to Brits but you don't have to travel to have a decent grasp of geography since we have handy things called atlases. I knew where Queensland was (and Cairns for that matter) decades before I ever visited either.

 

[Andy Adcock]

No, it's not a flaw unique to Brits but you don't have to travel to have a decent grasp of geography since we have handy things called atlases. I knew where Queensland was (and Cairns for that matter) decades before I ever visited either.

I think people like us are odd John to be honest, I've always loved maps anyway.

Try asking the average Portuguese or Russian where Sheffield is on a map or ask an average American to point to the UK. I saw something where they stopped Americans in the street and asked them questions on Geography. The clear winner was a ten year old boy, the rest couldn't even point to the continents and I'll bet it's the same in the UK.

I'll bet I could ask any of my neighbours to point out continents on a blank map and 90% would be wrong. Even those that holiday in e.g Spain, would struggle to point to it on a map.

 

[Chosun Juan]

Thining, Clearing, Backburning is NOT the answer .....

Amid this crisis both scared frightened people, and a veritable cavalcade of rednecks and loudmouths alike are calling for more clearing, more back burning.

The RFS Commissioner himself, Shane Fitzsimmons has said that more back burning would not have prevented the fires we have seen. Research and Indigenous wisdom is the way to proceed.

Here is an excellent interview with Professor David Lindenmayer who has been an Ecology, forest and threatened species researcher and expert for decades. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lindenmayer

Jump to 12:45mins to start with the background and then interview.
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/progra...7rzx-icmrfd2pcdQ-cLG4hW2DN4xFzeRZQ72tkf7-ZK24

Moisture in the land is the key.



Chosun :gh: