Interesting. I have always wondered how good the Zeiss 20x60S binoculars were. Do you think the head rest on the NL would even be close to IS or a tripod as far as stabilization or do you think it would be a waste of time at 8x?
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Does the Head Rest help on the NL 8x42? (1 Viewer)
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That is pretty much how I feel. It depends on how much you shake and If you think the extra weight and bulkiness are worth it.
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Thanks, for your well qualified opinion. My eyes aren't either!
I find it strange that people are asking others to give them an opinion on how beneficial the NL headrest is when each person's benefit will differ, depend on the amount of shake they have.
As I have mentioned in a previous post, if you have little or no shake there is nothing for the headrest to compensate for so those people are likely to say that it doesn't work.
Then there will be the rest of the people, all with varying amounts of shake and therefore varying degrees of how effective each individual views the headrest benefit. In these cases any two people will to need to have similar amounts of shake in order for them to have a reasonable chance of having the same benefit from the headrest. Unfortunately, I don't know how you can simply measure the shake variation, although there might be a sophisticated way. But until some way found, just asking someone what the benefits of the headrest are in practical terms will, most probably, give you the wrong answer.
Stan
As I have mentioned in a previous post, if you have little or no shake there is nothing for the headrest to compensate for so those people are likely to say that it doesn't work.
Then there will be the rest of the people, all with varying amounts of shake and therefore varying degrees of how effective each individual views the headrest benefit. In these cases any two people will to need to have similar amounts of shake in order for them to have a reasonable chance of having the same benefit from the headrest. Unfortunately, I don't know how you can simply measure the shake variation, although there might be a sophisticated way. But until some way found, just asking someone what the benefits of the headrest are in practical terms will, most probably, give you the wrong answer.
Stan
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I think the only way to objectively measure the benefit of head rest is to test it like Kimmo did in the test above. That way you eliminate the variability of different users' ability to hold the binoculars steady.
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=297776
The headrest could help with accurate head positioning when using NL on a tripod (as per BTX headrest). For some this could be the main advantage and it would be good to compare.
While the head rest on the NL will surely be somewhat helpful, it is unlikely to be as effective as a stabilized glass. The joy of the stabilization is that it removes the micro jitters inherent in hand holding.
Those are not removed by an added rest, whether on the forehead or on a finnstick.
At least in my experience, even if resting my Canon 10x42 on my glasses while looking at a bird high above me, engaging the IS greatly improves the ability to discern the details.
Those are not removed by an added rest, whether on the forehead or on a finnstick.
At least in my experience, even if resting my Canon 10x42 on my glasses while looking at a bird high above me, engaging the IS greatly improves the ability to discern the details.
You're correct. I never thought of that angle.
I agree. What I would like to know and you would only know with some testing is what % improvement in stability the head rest gives you versus IS or a tripod. Maybe 20%?
Head reasts are not new, these german binoculars manufactured more than fifty years ago had sort of bolt between the eyepieces which you can srew into the right position
http://www.astrotreff.de/upload/TGM/20170912/Marox 8x32.jpg
http://www.astrotreff.de/upload/TGM/20170912/P1000711_klein.jpg
The reduction of shake is minimal, 20 % or so ?
I am not using them and any more and would be interested whether the Swaro head rest does a better job.
p.s. IS has a very different effect, I enjoy the Canon 10x42 IS and especially the 14x32 IS, although the latter has a lot of CA. The amount of detail is amazing, especially in fast changing scences.
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Yes to all this but it also varies with the wind and depends not only wind speed but also whether the wind is steady at a more or less constant speed or is gusting or pulsing. I am doubtful whether a head rest can compensate for a pulsing side-wind that is affecting your head and your arms.
Lee
John A Roberts
Well-known member
Additional Specatross Detail
Following on from posts #35 and 36, some more detail
The first 2 images are from the most comprehensive source of historical flyers, pamphlets and catalogues for binoculars that’s available online,
from Mark at Miniature Binoculars: https://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/part3/Page21529.htm
The images are from a 1960 Ross pamphlet, and show both the 8x40 Spectaross, and the 8x35 Spectacle Solaross (the Solaross being a lower cost line)
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The British patent for the forehead rest was filed by Owen George Hay in November 1950
See the detail from Terence Wayland’s comprehensive research on Ross of London that can be found on Peter Abrahams classic Europa site,
at: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/Ross/
John
Following on from posts #35 and 36, some more detail
The first 2 images are from the most comprehensive source of historical flyers, pamphlets and catalogues for binoculars that’s available online,
from Mark at Miniature Binoculars: https://www.miniaturebinoculars.com/part3/Page21529.htm
The images are from a 1960 Ross pamphlet, and show both the 8x40 Spectaross, and the 8x35 Spectacle Solaross (the Solaross being a lower cost line)
- - - -
The British patent for the forehead rest was filed by Owen George Hay in November 1950
See the detail from Terence Wayland’s comprehensive research on Ross of London that can be found on Peter Abrahams classic Europa site,
at: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/Ross/
John
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Exactly, and that is why I suggested that for one person to ask another what the percentage difference is between the NL with the headrest or without, the figure is unlikely to be correct. If each person goes through the same procedure to establish the strength of their shake, including the variables you suggest, it will never produce a reliable result. As I've said before, the only way to be sure is "TRY BEFORE YOU BUY"
Stan
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Hi John,
Excellent, thanks a lot!
Reading between the lines, I wonder if the head rest was actually more of a device to ensure that the spectacle wearer would manage to hit the small sweet spot regarding correct eye placement more easily, and not so much one primarily intended to reduce image shake ...
Regards,
Henning
Excellent, thanks a lot!
Reading between the lines, I wonder if the head rest was actually more of a device to ensure that the spectacle wearer would manage to hit the small sweet spot regarding correct eye placement more easily, and not so much one primarily intended to reduce image shake ...
Regards,
Henning
Hi again,
Oops ... actually, if I follow the link, the caption for patent #687383 clearly states:
"A pad to be used by spectacle wearers on binoculars with long eye relief. The pad screws on to the top of the focussing spindle and rests against the forehead. This keeps the eyepiece at the correct distance."
So, no reading between the lines on my part should have been necessary
Regards,
Henning
Oops ... actually, if I follow the link, the caption for patent #687383 clearly states:
"A pad to be used by spectacle wearers on binoculars with long eye relief. The pad screws on to the top of the focussing spindle and rests against the forehead. This keeps the eyepiece at the correct distance."
So, no reading between the lines on my part should have been necessary
Regards,
Henning
I agree on the IS binoculars showing an amazing amount of detail. I have the Canon 12x36 IS III and the new Nikon 10x25 IS, and they both show way more detail than any unstabilized binocular I have tried especially as you say on fast moving objects like an airplane or bird in flight. I couldn't open your links for some reason.
That is interesting. The advantage of the head rest for spectacle wearers is logical.
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