White and light grey geese (1 Viewer)

[Martin16]

While carrying out a WeBS count todat I came across two white and two greyish coloured geese in a group of some 250 Greylags at Lay Moss in the Scottish Borders (NT5230). At first I dismissed them as domestic birds and then noted that the marking on the two white were almost identical as were those on the greyish coloured birds. Have they just joined the gaggle or should I have shown more interest in them?

Martin

 

[delia todd]

Hi Martin - it's great to see you posting again lad.

I've moved your post to the ID forum and subscribed you to the thread so that you can find it easily. You will receive an email with a link to click on which will bring you straight here.

I'm sure the guys in there will soon help you out.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Martin,
the white ones are Greylags and no Snow or Ross´s Geese, wrong bill colour among other things.
The pale grey ones are more difficult, at least to me. The "plastic"-orange bill colour is a sign of an captive/domesicated bird. When this taken into account, and the frequency of Chinese/Swan Goose-blood in domestic Greylag Geese, makes me think of an influnce of this species, because of two coloured neck and head. If you call this possible GreylagxChinese Geese is a little bit of personal opinion, I think. But I like to learn, as allways when suspected hybrids are envolved.
Because wild Greylags with a slight contrast in head and neck pattern are regular. So I think a more pronounced contrast can be explained by unusual paleness without need for hybrid influence in your birds.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I would consider these birds to be leucistic greylags.
The pattern in the pale grey birds which could make people think of swan goose hybrids, is there in all grey geese. It doesn´t stand out in several species because the grey of the top of the head and the rear of the neck is not very different e.g. in greylag or whitefronts...

In greylag you sometimes see the color differences in certain light conditions:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/640x360/p05dl875.jpg

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...4_1000b.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200606172324

https://www.virtualheb.co.uk/pictures/greylag-goose-western-isles-birds.jpg


Here is the same head and neck pattern in greater whitefront:

https://observation.org/media/photo/001/792/1792973.jpg


In pale grey birds maybe this pattern can be enhanced ?
I have seen photos of a similarly paler greater whitefront with a similar head
and neck pattern -which leads me to that thought?

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

In crosses of Branta x Anser geese this pattern can also emerge
Here is a lesser whitefront x barnacle goose showing this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33236701@N07/3817418622/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/33236701@N07/3816606759/in/photostream/

here in greylag x canada
https://waarneming.nl/fotonew/1/24516511.jpg
https://waarneming.nl/fotonew/9/24703739.jpg

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Joern,
thank you! I must admit, I didnt bother to look closely at Greylags in zoos/collections. But I think I have seen "Greylags" with such a contrasting dark pattern on head and neck there several times. I then thought some seconds about Swan Goose ancestry or variation, that is more easy seen at close range, but I didnt dig deep: they are captive birds.
So thank you, very helpfull!

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

You are right on this -domestic swan goose (Chinese goose) ancestry in domestic greylags certainly enhances this, and some birds where this is extremely pronounced show also otehr signs of chinese goose ancestry -like this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cdONkUEP7...g+x+Swan+Goose,+Thetford,+9-Feb-13+(A2)+L.JPG
- but I am speaking of wild birds where it is also visible in certain conditions (but perhaps not similarly in all birds).
with wild greylags it seems this trait is slightly better visible in the paler eastern greylags (rubrirostris); see for example at Oriental Bird Images

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Thank you, Joern!

 

[MacNara]

It would be helpful if you followed the Bird Forum guidelines and put the location in the title of your thread so those of us who don't know the region won't waste time clicking on your threads.

Thanks.

 

[RafaelMatias]

It would be helpful if you followed the Bird Forum guidelines and put the location in the title of your thread so those of us who don't know the region won't waste time clicking on your threads.

Thanks.

Hey, don't take this the wrong way, but surely you must also understand there were people wasting their own time viewing this new post on this actually interesting thread just to witness someone else's grumpiness with nothing new actually added to the thread. Think about that. Sometimes it's good to look beyond the tip of our own nose, or to have a mirror to look at, or however you want to put that. It's the second ID thread I look into just to see this same post of the posting-rules police guy. Thanks!

 

[MacNara]

Hey, don't take this the wrong way, but surely you must also understand there were people wasting their own time viewing this new post on this actually interesting thread just to witness someone else's grumpiness with nothing new actually added to the thread. Think about that. Sometimes it's good to look beyond the tip of our own nose, or to have a mirror to look at, or however you want to put that. It's the second ID thread I look into just to see this same post of the posting-rules police guy. Thanks!

Hi Rafael: if you look at the top of the Bird Identification Q & A you will see a 'sticky' thread titled 'Please Read Before Posting To The Id Forum'. Number one on this thread says:

1. The more locational information you provide in the title of the post, the more likely it is that people knowledgeable about the birds of your area will bother to take a look at it. Country--region--state/province--county--town, the further down the location tree you go, the better.

It's not really difficult to put a location in the title, is it? After all, if you don't know where you are, then you have greater problems than not knowing what your bird is.

For some of us, this can be significant. In my case one of the annoying things is threads with the word 'warbler' in the title, but no location. I often look at such threads hoping to learn more about old world warblers as a personal educational exercise. But many of the threads whose title contains the word 'warbler' are about new world warblers which are quite different, and if there was a location in the title it would be helpful.

I agree that if the title contains a unique species name - 'Is this a chiffchaff?' - then it's not a big deal if there is no location. But 'geese' are quite widespread, so a location would be helpful, wouldn't it?

It's the second ID thread I look into just to see this same post of the posting-rules police guy

It would have been easy to do the same for several more threads alive today. It's annoying for some of us, and I don't think reminding people occasionally is wrong.


Hey, don't take any of this the wrong way. Friendly intentions only.