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Acrocephalus etymology (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter crs
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Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Excellent! :t: :t: :t:Acrocephalus in: Naumann JA, Naumann F. 1811. Naturgeschichte der Land- und Wasser-Vögel des nördlichen Deutschlands und angränzender Länder. Nachtrag. Viertes Heft. Köthen.
With deep thanks to Martin
l_raty
laurent raty
The SUB Göttinger Digitalisierungszentrum has the text and plates up to Nachtrag, zweites Hetf : https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/volumes/id/PPN614795702
(The plate volumes are those with a brown cover.)
Tabula XXXXVI (alt. XLVI) of the erster Band is: https://gdz.sub.uni-goettingen.de/id/PPN614796377?tify={"pages":[95],"view":"info"}
(For two species, A. stagnatilis, A. fluviatilis, a "Taf. 27" is cited in the OD, without a volume number, thus this was presumably a plate associated to the 4th part of the Nachtrag itself. This, I have not seen yet. From the description, I think stagnatilis is a River Warbler; fluviatilis is used here as a substitute for Latham's locustella, and should be a Grasshopper Warbler.)
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mb1848
Well-known member
What a great community working towards illumination but not the bad kind. Laurent mentions A. stagnatilis, A. fluviatilis, a "Taf. 27" A Naumann in 1823 refers to A. stagnatilis as Taf. 26 Fig. 53. I wonder if he recycled the 1811 drawings for his 1823 book?
Page 694 is two pages text and drawing.
https://www.google.com/books/editio...ephalus++Naumann&pg=PA694&printsec=frontcover .
Page 694 is two pages text and drawing.
https://www.google.com/books/editio...ephalus++Naumann&pg=PA694&printsec=frontcover .
l_raty
laurent raty
I wondered as well. But I doubt it as there are two Grasshopper Warblers on this plate, and in the Nachtrag only one figure is cited for fluviatilis.
l_raty
laurent raty
OD: https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jjo1915/10/50/10_50_673/_pdf/-char/en: "Baron T. Nijô (男爵二條豊基)".
Google says: "男爵" = baron, "二條" = Nijo, "豊基" = Toyoki.
But Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nijō_Masamaro (as well as several other websites) has: "Nijō Toyomoto (二条 豊基, 1909–1944)" -- which I guess must be more correct.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Sorry Melanie, I have no notes (in or for my MS) of the obscure "Baron T. Nijô (男爵二條豊基)", but if needed I can ask my dear Japanese friend and neighbour Nobuhiko Osawa if he might know, or could find out, who that guy was.
That is, of course, if James doesn't already know him, which I think he does ...
Well, see, when (and, of course, if) James will reply.
/B
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
I will try to keep it it mind, next time I see him.
That is, of course, if James haven't answered, and solved it all, prior to that ...
We'll see.
/B
That is, of course, if James haven't answered, and solved it all, prior to that ...
We'll see.
/B
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Acrocephalus (luscinius) nijoi YAMASHINA 1940
Note that German Wiki page (updated today) seems to have been in a bit of a hurry (the names of the guys involved written in Eastern order of their names!)
Or is this standard practice in German?
Either way, I have no idea if Baron Nijō "(1909–1944)" is all correct, or not, neither do I know if he had any connection to Yamashina (that is, the Japanese politician, as of/in Laurent's latter link in post #27). From what I can tell, this far, he might/could have, or not.
In any case, Marquis Yoshimaro Yamashina (1900-1989) is fully correct, that's for sure, a k a 山階 芳麿 (alt. in the Eastern/Japanese order of names, surname first: Yamashina Yoshimaro), the very founder of the well-known Yamashina Institute for Ornithology.
To be continued ... (I hope)
/B
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Note that German Wiki page (updated today) seems to have been in a bit of a hurry (the names of the guys involved written in Eastern order of their names!)
Or is this standard practice in German?
Either way, I have no idea if Baron Nijō "(1909–1944)" is all correct, or not, neither do I know if he had any connection to Yamashina (that is, the Japanese politician, as of/in Laurent's latter link in post #27). From what I can tell, this far, he might/could have, or not.
In any case, Marquis Yoshimaro Yamashina (1900-1989) is fully correct, that's for sure, a k a 山階 芳麿 (alt. in the Eastern/Japanese order of names, surname first: Yamashina Yoshimaro), the very founder of the well-known Yamashina Institute for Ornithology.
To be continued ... (I hope)
/B
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l_raty
laurent raty
This seems to be usual in Wikipedia as a whole, see the English Wikipedia page I linked in post #17. (With explicit warning - "In this Japanese name, the family name is Nijō.")
Although it can't be seen from this English Wiki page, the equivalent Japanese page (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/二条正麿 ) indicates that "Nijō Masamaro (二条 正麿, January 9, 1872 – February 18, 1929)", the father of "Nijō Toyomoto (二条 豊基, 1909–1944)" was also a 男爵.
This page also says Toyomoto was "戦死", killed in action.
l_raty
laurent raty
I have very little doubt that he was.
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
The old key seems not to help on this as it only claims:
But I see no reason why not Nijō Toyomoto? He was alive in 1940 when the bird was described so what's counting against him. Was the father a baron? Or how did he get his title?
But I see no reason why not Nijō Toyomoto? He was alive in 1940 when the bird was described so what's counting against him. Was the father a baron? Or how did he get his title?
l_raty
laurent raty
The father was a baron (男爵) as I noted above (#32).
At https://keibatsugaku.com/nijyo/, we are told:
Note also that, if he was involved in Nan'yo Kōhatsu (南洋興発), he was at the right location to provide Micronesian specimens to Yamashina.
Re. -ki vs. -moto, the kanji 基 can be both: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/基#Etymology_1
At https://keibatsugaku.com/nijyo/, we are told:
I would make this:
Thus Toyomoto became a baron in 1929 after his father's death.
Note also that, if he was involved in Nan'yo Kōhatsu (南洋興発), he was at the right location to provide Micronesian specimens to Yamashina.
Re. -ki vs. -moto, the kanji 基 can be both: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/基#Etymology_1
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
I would clearly support your opinion that this is the right man.
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Thanks Laurent, now the nijoi case looks slightly more convincing.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Acrocephalus (luscinius) nijoi YAMASHINA 1940
One more ... though nothing contradictory (only some added info/confirmation)
The (Junior) Baron Toyomoto Nijō (1909–1944), alt. ditto Nijô, a k a 條豊基 , or in the Eastern/Japanese way: 'Nijō Toyomoto' do seem to be "our guy".
The single specimen [the Type (holotype) itself, of nijoi; "標本番号YIO-27843"]; "... that exists only in Yamashina Institute for Ornithology in the world", can be seen here, or on the attached JPG.
And note the following certain part (from that particular page, all in Japanese):
Thus, I don't think I will have to bother my friend Nobuhiko Osawa with this certain one.
Anyone who thinks otherwise?
However, enjoy!
Björn
PS. And, Melanie, sorry for the extra job.
PPS. Also note that "Mr. Hyojiro Orii, a collector hired by Dr. Yamashina" is mentioned as well in the same (Japanese) text, which ought to be the same "H. Orii" (折 居 彪 二 郎) mentioned in the OD (in post #27), which must be the fairly well-known Japanese collector Hyojiro Orii (1883-?1948) , commemorated in several taxa, after having collected in various places, both in Japan, and Korea, as well as in Manchuria and on several Islands in the Pacific.
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One more ... though nothing contradictory (only some added info/confirmation)
The (Junior) Baron Toyomoto Nijō (1909–1944), alt. ditto Nijô, a k a 條豊基 , or in the Eastern/Japanese way: 'Nijō Toyomoto' do seem to be "our guy".
The single specimen [the Type (holotype) itself, of nijoi; "標本番号YIO-27843"]; "... that exists only in Yamashina Institute for Ornithology in the world", can be seen here, or on the attached JPG.
And note the following certain part (from that particular page, all in Japanese):
Well, that just about said it all ...
Thus, I don't think I will have to bother my friend Nobuhiko Osawa with this certain one.
Anyone who thinks otherwise?
However, enjoy!
Björn
PS. And, Melanie, sorry for the extra job.
PPS. Also note that "Mr. Hyojiro Orii, a collector hired by Dr. Yamashina" is mentioned as well in the same (Japanese) text, which ought to be the same "H. Orii" (折 居 彪 二 郎) mentioned in the OD (in post #27), which must be the fairly well-known Japanese collector Hyojiro Orii (1883-?1948) , commemorated in several taxa, after having collected in various places, both in Japan, and Korea, as well as in Manchuria and on several Islands in the Pacific.
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Attachments
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Final post on Baron Nijō, and the specimen/s of "his" Reed Warbler
I simply have to return to this certain species, just to get things right, as Japanese is a language hard to understand (to say the least), and as I, in my former post (somewhat sloppy), cut the quote a bit too short (when inserting that Japanese text into Google Translate), the way I wrote the following part unfortunately turned out a bit bad, which made it easy to misinterpret (or simply dead wrong) ...
Thus; five is five, five they were, and five they (still) are. Right should be right.
Well, that it. I'm done (on this one).
nijoi ... over and out!
Björn
PS. All of YIO's Acrocephalus luscinius specimens, of various ssp.: here.
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I simply have to return to this certain species, just to get things right, as Japanese is a language hard to understand (to say the least)
, and as I, in my former post (somewhat sloppy), cut the quote a bit too short (when inserting that Japanese text into Google Translate), the way I wrote the following part unfortunately turned out a bit bad, which made it easy to misinterpret (or simply dead wrong) ...From the OD itself (link in post #27) of "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" [today's (even if extinct) Acrocephalus (luscinius) nijoi (Yamashina, 1940)] it's clear that "5 ads." (five adults) were collected ... and, all five specimens are still present in the collection of the Yamashina Institute for Ornithology (YIO), Chiba, Japan [which, as far as I understand it, ought to make them all Syntypes]:
- Specimen ID: YIO-27842 (Old specimen ID: YY-27812); "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" (on label), collected 29 Feb. 1940, (here)
- Specimen ID: YIO-00162 (Old specimen ID: YY-27813); "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" (on label), collected 29 Feb. 1940, (here), marked: "Type specimen"
- Specimen ID: YIO-27843 (Old specimen ID: YY-27814); "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" (on label), collected 29 Feb. 1940 (here)
- Specimen ID: YIO-27844 (Old specimen ID: YY-27815); "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" (on label), collected 29 Feb. 1940 (here)
- Specimen ID: YIO-27845 (Old specimen ID: YY-27816); "Conopoderas luscinia nijoi" (on label), collected 29 Feb. 1940 (here)
Thus; five is five, five they were, and five they (still) are. Right should be right.
Well, that it. I'm done (on this one).
nijoi ... over and out!
Björn
PS. All of YIO's Acrocephalus luscinius specimens, of various ssp.: here.
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