Maroon Jay
Airborne
Do Peucedramidae (olive warbler) and Arremonops (Olive sparrow and family) have English names? For example Trochilidae = Hummingbirds and Laridae = Gulls.
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Olive Sparrow and Olive Warbler (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Maroon Jay
- Start date
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
I guess, yes, warbler and sparrow
https://media1.tenor.com/images/348caef7f383e12d740d7777726e54a3/tenor.gif?itemid=9271200
Are you one of those people who thinks the genera Peucedramus and Arremonops (and a fortiori the family Arremonidae) should change their names, Ocotero and Towhee respectively?
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Maroon Jay
Airborne
Olive Warbler and Olive Sparrow are not in the same family as other Warblers and Sparrows, and no, I am not wanting to change any names, just trying to find English translations.
James Lowther
Well-known member
Peucedramidae = “olive warbler”. (No plural for monotypic families)
Arremonidae = “American sparrows” (John Boyd). I guess “new world sparrows” would work as well
Cheers
James
Arremonidae = “American sparrows” (John Boyd). I guess “new world sparrows” would work as well
Cheers
James
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
I think the English name "olive" refer to the invalid protonym of the Ocotero : Sylvia olivacea Giraud,1841, which is preoccupied by Sylvia olivacea Vieillot, 1918 (but I don't know this current synonym). Although the specific name has been changed from olivacea to taeniatus, the English name remained. That said, why olive for a bird that's neither a warbler nor olive ?
Maroon Jay
Airborne
The Olive Warbler is the only bird in its family so I guess "Olive Warbler" will work for a family name as well as the species.
North American Sparrows are in the family Emberizidae, which does not include the Olive Sparrow which is in the family Arremonops which live in Central America and South America. Perhaps I will call them "Southern Sparrows" or something like that. There does not seem to be an English name for them.
Maroon Jay
Airborne
You are correct. The family is Passerellidae. I should have used the word genus.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
In fact, Arremonidae has priority over Passerellidae. See this thread :
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=281807&page=2
I think you have this a bit confused. Olive Sparrow is part of the New World Sparrow family, Passerellidae, which includes all North American sparrows and towhees (minus the members of Passer: House and Eurasian Tree sparrows. These are the "true sparrows" in family Passeridae). Emberizidae is now restricted to the Old World Buntings (but note that Longspurs and Snow Bunting are no longer part of that family, but in their own: Calcariidae).
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Interesting. Surprising that there has been no effort to have any of the main taxonomic committees accept this change.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
James Lowther
Well-known member
That’s not correct, regardless of whether the name is Arremonidae or Passerellidae, Olive Sparrow is in the same family as the North American Sparrows (see Dan’s post). Genera like Arremonops do not generally have English names.
Cheers
James
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Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
Maybe, but I suspect it has to do with the fact that no one has called the committees' attention to the issue. Many/most allow proposals from outside the committee to make such corrections, it just requires someone to do it.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
e.g. TiF checklist
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
But they're not Sparrows, as Sparrows are Passeridae
Could call them all Arremonopsids?
Or, from the difference between Passeridae and Passerellidae, how about from Sparrows to Sparrellas? 3
Maroon Jay
Airborne
Correct but Arromonops live mostly in South America (and Central America). I guess it should say Passerellidae include all North and South American Sparrows. Because it said only North America, I was thinking that the South American Sparrows were in a different family.
Jim LeNomenclatoriste
Je suis un mignon petit Traquet rubicole
But they're not Sparrows, as Sparrows are Passeridae
Could call them all Arremonopsids?
Or, from the difference between Passeridae and Passerellidae, how about from Sparrows to Sparrellas? 3
Towhee, simply Towhee
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Towhee or not Towhee, that is the question? :king:
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