Ivory-Billed Woodpecker continued (1 Viewer)

[ZanderII]

"pileated canada bull" is the temporarily banned 1TruthOwner or?

last seen trying to get help, great that s/he is being proactive.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I agree with most of what you say. My sketches are already in. Why would I hold them back, they lose value every day.

Are we not to be privy to at least your fieldnotes and sketches of just one of your sightings - would it not make sense to release one sample as evidence that those you hold back are grounded in accurate field observations of recent living IBWOs?

(I think it would help if you could clarify why your fieldnotes would loose ’value’ if you uploaded them here - is there a risk of plagiarism by other searchers?)

 

[Deb Burhinus]

last seen trying to get help, great that s/he is being proactive.

I am close to seeking help myself - it’s like pulling teeth at times.

 

[dantheman]

Agreed ... ;-)

Can't we all just go back to discussing blm, US politics and brexit? Life was so much simpler ...

 

[pileated canada bull]

Are we not to be privy to at least your fieldnotes and sketches of just one of your sightings - would it not make sense to release one sample as evidence that those you hold back are grounded in accurate field observations of recent living IBWOs?

(I think it would help if you could clarify why your fieldnotes would loose ’value’ if you uploaded them here - is there a risk of plagiarism by other searchers?)

No more on only your desired subject until you realize and fulfill reciprocity per an hour ago.

And why have you been scientifically mute for months when many others here have flailed the value of field notes? I sense shifting sands.

 

[pileated canada bull]

Can't we all just go back to discussing blm, US politics and brexit? Life was so much simpler ...

Like the humour! If I stormed the BF Capital (is there such a thing?) with a an Ivory-bill Lives banner dressed in a ghillie suit would I be charged with insuurection ? or just simple assault on all of your senses?

 

[ZanderII]

Has anyone got a link to a convincing field description of a recent IBWO sighting, that describes the sighting in detail and explains how, eg, leucistic PIWO and leucistic corvids were ruled out?

First sighting was at Manatee Springs State Park, Florida, across the Suwanee River, of what I initially thought might be a loon.

Description done: "initially looked like a loon"

 

[ZanderII]

Odd since there seems have been some recent sightings and areas are large. Others here say there are problesm in past techniques. They seem to agree on only that.

Possibly the worst take in this thread.

Just to reiterate and contrary to your earlier assertions USFWS is on the cusp of delisting IBWO

Although there have been many sightings reported over the years since the last agreed upon sighting in 1944, there is much debate over the validity of these reports. Furthermore, there is no objective evidence (e.g., clear photographs, feathers of demonstrated recent origin, specimens, etc.) of the continued existence of the species. Thus, we recommend that the ivory-billed woodpecker (Campephilus principalis), as originally listed in 1967, be delisted based on extinction.

The report was peer-reviewed by two authors of the 2005 Science paper.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

No more on only your desired subject until you realize and fulfill reciprocity per an hour ago.

And why have you been scientifically mute for months when many others here have flailed the value of field notes? I sense shifting sands.

What exactly is it you wish me to say? I am not going to be drawn into subjects in which I have no competence ie the size of cavity holes or flaps per Second of Ivory Billed Woodpeckers. I have answered all your other questions as politely and as honestly as I can. Yet you still refuse to comply with my one and only question of you

Can you please upload one example of your contemporaneous fieldnotes with a full description of what you saw?


I have no idea what you mean by being ‘scientifically mute’ - I have made quite a few contributions to this thread, none I might add, where I have claimed to be a scientist.

If your tactic is to somehow undermine my legitimate requests for fieldnotes by showing me up to be an incompetent scientist unable to rebutt your scientific analysis of wing flaps (which is what the Collinson research did fairly effectively without my help!) then congratulations! I consider my ‘qualifications’ as a scientist null and void.😂

Now please can we see a sample of your fieldnotes - as that is something, I and a great many other birders here know something about?

As Zander quotes from his paper above:

”Although there have been many sightings reported over the years since the last agreed upon sighting in 1944, there is much debate over the validity of these reports.”

Lets try and deal with this little elephant shall we by looking at some of the documenting field observations relating to your sightings specifically?

 

[Sancho]

Agreed ... ;-)

Can't we all just go back to discussing blm, US politics and brexit? Life was so much simpler ...

Please, oh please, Giant Ravens!

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Please, oh please, Giant Ravens

Maybe it’s possible to bore people into submission! 😁

 

[ZanderII]

As Zander quotes from his paper above:

”Although there have been many sightings reported over the years since the last agreed upon sighting in 1944, there is much debate over the validity of these reports.

Just to clarify that Hauksen was the first to point that document out and that it isn't a peer-reviewed paper but a peer-reviewed government review which will have been very sensitive to IBWO politics - even Mike Collins gets a mention! The review tactfully concludes that the rediscovery was erroneous - it says in no uncertain terms that this is game over:

IV. RECOMMENDATIONS FOR FUTURE ACTIONS The only recommended action is to prepare a proposed rule to delist the ivory-billed woodpecker due to presumed extinction.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Unfortunately I will not be interacting with you in the future.

Considering that you have so far avoided nearly all my questions, that's not an unexpected response!

 

[pileated canada bull]

Not able to go into detail here but we know XXXXX the XXXXXX XXXX are. The pertinent divisions of XXXXX have been seriously hurt to eliminated. Employees for various divisions went from XXXXX to 0 people. THe IB was not worked on. Any presumption that any delisting is based mainly on recent field science is a fallacy. Employee numbers nationally down to only ~ 3,700 from XXXXX. XXXXX and XXXXX are gone.

Things will change but the focus will be ESG e.g, greenhouse and affiliated. Not much more possible to say here at BF.

have a good day if I do not see you for awhile

 

[ZanderII]

Not able to go into detail here but we know XXXXX the XXXXXX XXXX are. The pertinent divisions of XXXXX have been seriously hurt to eliminated. Employees for various divisions went from XXXXX to 0 people. Overall employee numbers nationally down to ~ 3,700 from XXXXX.

Things will change but the focus will be ESG e.g, greenhouse and affiliated.

ahhh back to conspiracy theories! They declared it extinct because they haven't the money/staff. I bet that sounded good in your head.

have a good day if I do not see you for awhile

Coming back as Diane again? Good day to you too.

 

[motiheal]

Description done: "initially looked like a loon"

Not the place or season for a loon. Made me think twice.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

have a good day if I do not see you for awhile

You leaving? Already?

Great chat - Many thanks, it’s been revealing. Look forward to seeing more details about your IB sightings in due course supplemented by some field notes hopefully, so we can have a better level of engagement here 👍

 

[motiheal]

I can believe any ivory-bills that survived the 1940s might well be shy of man to the end of their lives. But what about their offspring, and the next generation after them, and the next? From say the 1960s onwards they would not have been subjected to the same kind of hunting pressure. Remove hunting pressure/human persecution and there are many examples, across different species, of bolder individuals tolerating the presence of man in order to exploit food sources and habitat shunned by shyer birds/mammals within a few generations. That is the driver for reversal.

I'm not saying the ivory-bill is likely to show up in suburban areas like the pileated woodpecker apparently does, but becoming tolerant enough to allow better photos/video to be taken than what has appeared thus far isn't beyond the bounds of reason - is it?

In the past ten years, there are reports by individuals on the IBWO Facebook page (which is where they would logically go) of sightings from windows, in backyard-type areas. These are invariably on fringes of much larger, decent habitat for IBWOs.

 

[ZanderII]

In the past ten years, there are reports by individuals on the IBWO Facebook page (which is where they would logically go) of sightings from windows, in backyard-type areas. These are invariably on fringes of much larger, decent habitat for IBWOs.

If IBWO were extant I would anticipate sightings of birds out of habitat. Of course documenting them would be easy in that case.

 

[pileated canada bull]

If IBWO were extant I would anticipate sightings of birds out of habitat. Of course documenting them would be easy in that case.

Excuse my interution on this. Ok if i get in here after you Mo?