etc
Well-known member
How does NL's view differ from EL's ?
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Is a 50mm NL likely? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tenex
- Start date
jan van daalen
Well-known member
IMHO you can't compare both.
The NL is of a different league.
Significant wider FOV, higher contrast and clarity which, compared directly with the SV, gives the SV a bit more of a dull image presentation.
Something you don't notice at all if you don't have the NL for a comparison.
I don't know how Swaro did it, but they managed it.
Can't wait for the 50 to show up (august?).
Jan
PYRTLE
Old Berkshire Boy
Jan,
Does that conversation last year not rule out a 50mm NL Pure coming soon, if at all? Also, with the new premises slowing down production of units. Certainly for this year if Swarovski's vision and ethos is for a "compact" binocular......my belief why they introduced a x 12 to perhaps interest stalkers.
On the other hand a 50mm NL Rangefinder must be in any future mix for that section of end users.
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Hi Pyrtle,
August is my guess........
I don't see any future for a 50mm range because thermal takes the complete market for use during low light circumstances.
Ragarding compact, I can't call the NL32 a compact bin.
Jan
PYRTLE
Old Berkshire Boy
I agree that any bin greater than 25mm shouldn't be thought of as a compact. It was a quote from the Swarovski rep. in the attached post.
As you would have your finger on the pulse in relation to changing trends of binocular and optics sales it is interesting that there also seems to be an increased interest in thermal imaging by birders here in the UK.
As you would have your finger on the pulse in relation to changing trends of binocular and optics sales it is interesting that there also seems to be an increased interest in thermal imaging by birders here in the UK.
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Down here sales of thermal to birders is going through the roof. Not so much in case of detecting and protecting nests although that market is growing but the volume lies at the "hunter" birders who want to score as many different species as they can.
It is a complete new market segment.
Jan
It is a complete new market segment.
Jan
henry link
Well-known member
I'd love to see an 8x50 NL, but I don't think there's much chance of it since Swaro didn't choose to do an 8x50 EL SV and they already have a highly competent 8x56.
tenex
reality-based
How would this work... locate with thermal scope, then try to identify in bins? Are they not also then using large bins?
PYRTLE
Old Berkshire Boy
As I understand it is a technique used to locate skulking species and nocturnal activities ie, Snipe, Woodcock, Nightjars etc. Slso in conjunction with audio recording equipment some night flying migrants, ducks, geese and passerines can be "seen". A new avenue for many, not just study or conservation groups.
John A Roberts
Well-known member
What will an NL x50 offer in terms of handling?
At this stage, in terms of hand-holding a large binocular with the NL's unique design, the Vortex Razor UHD's probably come closest to giving an idea
The UHD's come in three sizes, with the most relevant being the 12x50 and 18x56 versions
Roger Vine has reviewed the 18x56 at: http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/VortexRazor18x56.htm
See three photos, including one comparing the 18x56 to the conventionally shaped Swarovski SLC 15x56
Roger notes in relation to the Vortex:
'Those barrels with their long slim section and flared ends look weird. But here’s the thing, they make these the most comfortable big-eye bino’s I have tested. Reducing shakes in big-eyes means holding them around the objectives: Vortex know this and have designed accordingly, with that patch of ribbed armour where your fingertips go. This feature really helps make them easier to hold stead. The only problem is that the focuser is then a long way off; it might have been better on the front end of the bridge'
And in his conclusions, comparing the Vortex to the Swarovski SLC 15x56:
'The Razors’ slim, flared barrels are a bit easier and more comfortable to hold steady'
From Roger's comments it seems that he prefers a symmetric hold on the front of long and heavy binoculars (especially note the observation about the focuser location). And since he wears spectacles, he indexes and presumedly braces the ends of the eyecups against the spectacle lenses
In contrast I don't wear glasses, and with my EL 12x50 I prefer an asymmetric hold; with one hand as far forward as possible, and the other sufficiently rearward so that the thumb is braced against my nose - forming a triangle with the top of the two eyecups braced against my brow ridge
(compared to the photograph of Roger, my front hand would be more forward, and my back hand more rearward)
Either with or without glasses, I'd be surprised if the symmetrical hold of the waist of the NL x42 that seems to work so well for many, would be as successful with a longer and heavier - and presumedly more forward balanced - NL x50. Though the FRP forehead brace may help make a difference for some
And of course the smaller volume of the waist in the focuser area, will be a significant advantage for any with smaller hands wishing to hand-hold a large binocular
. . . so in anticipation of an NL 12x50
John
p.s. In contrast to the photograph, I hold my elbows closer together, so that my forearms are more nearly vertical when viewed from the front.
This means that the weight of the binocular is supported on the palms of my hands, and not my thumbs
At this stage, in terms of hand-holding a large binocular with the NL's unique design, the Vortex Razor UHD's probably come closest to giving an idea
The UHD's come in three sizes, with the most relevant being the 12x50 and 18x56 versions
Roger Vine has reviewed the 18x56 at: http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/VortexRazor18x56.htm
See three photos, including one comparing the 18x56 to the conventionally shaped Swarovski SLC 15x56
Roger notes in relation to the Vortex:
'Those barrels with their long slim section and flared ends look weird. But here’s the thing, they make these the most comfortable big-eye bino’s I have tested. Reducing shakes in big-eyes means holding them around the objectives: Vortex know this and have designed accordingly, with that patch of ribbed armour where your fingertips go. This feature really helps make them easier to hold stead. The only problem is that the focuser is then a long way off; it might have been better on the front end of the bridge'
And in his conclusions, comparing the Vortex to the Swarovski SLC 15x56:
'The Razors’ slim, flared barrels are a bit easier and more comfortable to hold steady'
From Roger's comments it seems that he prefers a symmetric hold on the front of long and heavy binoculars (especially note the observation about the focuser location). And since he wears spectacles, he indexes and presumedly braces the ends of the eyecups against the spectacle lenses
In contrast I don't wear glasses, and with my EL 12x50 I prefer an asymmetric hold; with one hand as far forward as possible, and the other sufficiently rearward so that the thumb is braced against my nose - forming a triangle with the top of the two eyecups braced against my brow ridge
(compared to the photograph of Roger, my front hand would be more forward, and my back hand more rearward)
Either with or without glasses, I'd be surprised if the symmetrical hold of the waist of the NL x42 that seems to work so well for many, would be as successful with a longer and heavier - and presumedly more forward balanced - NL x50. Though the FRP forehead brace may help make a difference for some
And of course the smaller volume of the waist in the focuser area, will be a significant advantage for any with smaller hands wishing to hand-hold a large binocular
. . . so in anticipation of an NL 12x50
John
p.s. In contrast to the photograph, I hold my elbows closer together, so that my forearms are more nearly vertical when viewed from the front.
This means that the weight of the binocular is supported on the palms of my hands, and not my thumbs
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jan van daalen
Well-known member
Identifying goes by the binocular, finding it's location happens with the thermal.
I would love to see a device for the end consumer where one can have both in one device. When you can't locate the object with the bin, switch to thermal and after you found it, switch over to the analog bin.
Jan
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Thermal imaging cameras are amazing in some applications:
- Makes finding vocalizing owls/nightjars worlds easier and you're not swinging a torch beam around and harassing / risking flushing the bird. Once located you can use a lower light setting to see it briefly. Much less impact overall, much higher success rate.
- Finding things like thrushes, pittas, quail-doves, etc, particularly early in the morning. Find it with the thermal scope then you try to get a good enough view to confirm ID if it is not vocalizing.
- Finding roosting birds at night
- Finding mammals of course as well
- Makes finding vocalizing owls/nightjars worlds easier and you're not swinging a torch beam around and harassing / risking flushing the bird. Once located you can use a lower light setting to see it briefly. Much less impact overall, much higher success rate.
- Finding things like thrushes, pittas, quail-doves, etc, particularly early in the morning. Find it with the thermal scope then you try to get a good enough view to confirm ID if it is not vocalizing.
- Finding roosting birds at night
- Finding mammals of course as well
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
John Roberts, post 32,
The Vortex 10x50 looks almost the same as the Kite Petrel 10x50, which suggest that they have the same producer situated in Asia..
Gijs van Ginkel
The Vortex 10x50 looks almost the same as the Kite Petrel 10x50, which suggest that they have the same producer situated in Asia..
Gijs van Ginkel
tenex
reality-based
I disagree. And rather than the hold Roger shows, like you I prefer to keep the elbows lower and support weight with more than just the thumb which is too tippy. Then a slight rotation of the forearm can create full contact with the bin from base of thumb across entire palm, which I find quite stable even for the 15x56 SLC. (I think Swaro actually had this in mind because it lines up with the thumb indents, and keeps the focuser within reach.) I expect this hold would work equally well with a more slender midsection so I see no special handling challenge presented by a hypothetical NL 50.
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John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi tenex (post #36),
In terms of hand placement and weight distribution, there are four main choices: weight forward of the hands; weight rearward of the hands; weight over the hands, or; weight between the hands
As I indicated I don’t wear glasses, and with longer and heavier binoculars the last is my preference, with a widely spaced asymmetric hold
It seems that Roger who does wears glasses, probably achieves a similar outcome - effectively supporting the weight of the binocular at both ends -
but in a different way i.e. the front of the binocular is supported by his hands, and the eyecups at the rear are supported by their contact with his spectacles
- - - -
It’s interesting that with recent introductions, we’re seeing examples of the deliberate control of the balance point and hand positioning, as a major selling point:
• the rear ErgoBalance of the Zeiss SF series, and
• the central over-the-hands balance of the NL series, 'enforced' (or at least 'strongly encouraged') by the distinct waist shape
Though whether a hold that works well for most, works best for all, is another matter e.g. see two images showing users of the NL
They were featured on Swarovski websites on the introduction of the NL x42!; see the comments firstly in post #955 and then in 948 at:
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/new-product-introduction-today-from-swarovski.391608/page-48
And in addition when using a binocular for an extended period, I routinely change my hold (both placement and symmetry), to avoid shake induced from holding the one position for too long
John
In terms of hand placement and weight distribution, there are four main choices: weight forward of the hands; weight rearward of the hands; weight over the hands, or; weight between the hands
As I indicated I don’t wear glasses, and with longer and heavier binoculars the last is my preference, with a widely spaced asymmetric hold
It seems that Roger who does wears glasses, probably achieves a similar outcome - effectively supporting the weight of the binocular at both ends -
but in a different way i.e. the front of the binocular is supported by his hands, and the eyecups at the rear are supported by their contact with his spectacles
- - - -
It’s interesting that with recent introductions, we’re seeing examples of the deliberate control of the balance point and hand positioning, as a major selling point:
• the rear ErgoBalance of the Zeiss SF series, and
• the central over-the-hands balance of the NL series, 'enforced' (or at least 'strongly encouraged') by the distinct waist shape
Though whether a hold that works well for most, works best for all, is another matter e.g. see two images showing users of the NL
They were featured on Swarovski websites on the introduction of the NL x42!; see the comments firstly in post #955 and then in 948 at:
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/new-product-introduction-today-from-swarovski.391608/page-48
And in addition when using a binocular for an extended period, I routinely change my hold (both placement and symmetry), to avoid shake induced from holding the one position for too long
John
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John A Roberts
Well-known member
An image from Roger's review of the Zeiss 10x56 Conquest HD, clearly shows the detail of his technique for holding large binoculars,
in terms of the front and back support. It's demonstrated by his daughter; see at: http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/ZeissConquest10x56HD.htm
John
in terms of the front and back support. It's demonstrated by his daughter; see at: http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/ZeissConquest10x56HD.htm
John
