Veiling Glare Comparisons (1 Viewer)

[Robert Moore]

I said this in another thread but the 8x42NL for me has the absolute best view when looking towards the sun or any other way and has the most transparent view with superb contrast. It makes my other alpha binoculars look hazy in comparison. I wear glasses and my eye relief is the first stop from all the way down.

 

[LucaPCP]

I like my binoculars to have a little bit of glare. That way when I look at birds in the canopy I know if I am getting my binoculars too close to the Sun!
I don’t want to risk starting at the Sun through binoculars!

 

[Maljunulo]

The thought just occurred to me to ask if this phenomenon correlates with eye color.

Do the people who are most bothered by it have light-colored eyes, and do the people who never see it have dark?

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Maljuno, post 63,
Light enters your eye through the tiny black disk in it: your pupil, so I do not expect that here will be a difference between blue, brown or green eyed people.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Maljunulo]

Maljuno, post 63,
Light enters your eye through the tiny black disk in it: your pupil, so I do not expect that here will be a difference between blue, brown or green eyed people.
Gijs van Ginkel

Stray (off axis) light can fall on the iris, and if not absorbed be scattered into the eyeball.

Light-eyed people are known to be more light sensitive for this reason.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Maljunulo, post 65,
We did a quick experiment: my wife has dark brown eyes and I have blue eyes. Using different light sources we could not describe/observe differences in scattered light sensitivities. But I admit: there have to be done further experiments to deepen our insight/knowledge at home (the laboratory is closed due to Covid, so lab. experiments are impossible and my text books are in the laboratory).
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Maljunulo]

Well, if you decide to play with the idea more, I would be interested in the results.

It could just be another crackpot theory, and I'm not sure how you would test it anyway, unless you put up a survey and ask everyone here who complained about it what color their eyes are.

 

[GrampaTom]

Here's a thought. Having just gone through the exam and measuring for cataract lens replacement, I was reminded of the symptoms of cataract degraded lens. In addition to somewhat hazy overall views, topping my list of complaints is the glare from auto headlights at night. Maybe I'm nuts, but what're the chances folks who report glare issues with binos in fact have a cataract issue but dont yet know it?

 

[Maljunulo]

Here's a thought. Having just gone through the exam and measuring for cataract lens replacement, I was reminded of the symptoms of cataract degraded lens. In addition to somewhat hazy overall views, topping my list of complaints is the glare from auto headlights at night. Maybe I'm nuts, but what're the chances folks who report glare issues with binos in fact have a cataract issue but dont yet know it?

That was my experience before cataract surgery, and I gave up driving at night because of it.

After both eyes were done, after my first drive at night, my impression was "All of the light stayed where it was supposed to be."

I never thought of cataracts. They let them go for a while until they do the surgery here, I don't know about other countries. They have to be "ripe" or "mature" but I have no idea what that means.

Is there an ophthalmologist in the house?

 

[james holdsworth]

Here's a thought. Having just gone through the exam and measuring for cataract lens replacement, I was reminded of the symptoms of cataract degraded lens. In addition to somewhat hazy overall views, topping my list of complaints is the glare from auto headlights at night. Maybe I'm nuts, but what're the chances folks who report glare issues with binos in fact have a cataract issue but dont yet know it?

For many binoculars with a history of glare issues, people like Henry et al. have often examined specimens and provided the physical evidence on what produces the glare...can’t say I know of any model that has bonafide reports of glare that didn’t (eventually) have the glare explained in a scientific fashion, rather than explained as user specific based on eye health.

 

[PYRTLE]

They let them go for a while until they do the surgery here, I don't know about other countries. They have to be "ripe" or "mature" but I have no idea what that means.

It's the same approach here in the UK under our NHS system - the eyesight / cataract has to be sufficiently poor before they consider correction.

Edit : Resulting in many individuals deciding to take the " private " route for treatment.

 

[Maljunulo]

It's the same approach here in the UK under our NHS system - the eyesight / cataract has to be sufficiently poor before they consider correction.

I wondered if they would be similar.

 

[eitanaltman]

For many binoculars with a history of glare issues, people like Henry et al. have often examined specimens and provided the physical evidence on what produces the glare...can’t say I know of any model that has bonafide reports of glare that didn’t (eventually) have the glare explained in a scientific fashion, rather than explained as user specific based on eye health.

Well said. While I'm sure individual variation in facial features, binocular positioning, eye sensitivity etc. has an impact on how much glare in a particular model bothers you, it's important to keep in mind that the glare can be objectively assessed sans the input of our human eyes/brain as a variable. As a "quick and dirty" test, you can hold up a binocular a foot or two away from your face and tilt it around with a bright light source off axis and see the bright rim on the edge of the exit pupil that causes "peripheral crescent flares", or observe how well blackened the interior of the barrel is, for example.

 

[Maljunulo]

Well said. While I'm sure individual variation in facial features, binocular positioning, eye sensitivity etc. has an impact on how much glare in a particular model bothers you, it's important to keep in mind that the glare can be objectively assessed sans the input of our human eyes/brain as a variable. As a "quick and dirty" test, you can hold up a binocular a foot or two away from your face and tilt it around with a bright light source off axis and see the bright rim on the edge of the exit pupil that causes "peripheral crescent flares", or observe how well blackened the interior of the barrel is, for example.

Perhaps I misunderstood, because I thought we were talking about "veiling glare" the overall milky, diffuse "glare" which drastically reduces image contrast, not peripheral crescent flares.

 

[GrampaTom]

For many binoculars with a history of glare issues, people like Henry et al. have often examined specimens and provided the physical evidence on what produces the glare...can’t say I know of any model that has bonafide reports of glare that didn’t (eventually) have the glare explained in a scientific fashion, rather than explained as user specific based on eye health.

James thank you. I've read most of that, Henry's and others. Its all very interesting. I'm trying to raise a different point though. We humans like to complain and we like to blame the equipment. Sometimes it is the nut behind the screw. Have we thought about that? A well documented symptom of undiagnosed Cataracts is glare, especially at night when contrast is high dealing with street lights, car headlights, etc. Im just asking the question...
GTom

 

[GrampaTom]

As a "quick and dirty" test, you can hold up a binocular a foot or two away from your face and tilt it around with a bright light source off axis and see the bright rim on the edge of the exit pupil that causes "peripheral crescent flares", or observe how well blackened the interior of the barrel is, for example.

Well sorta. Is correlation causation?

 

[eitanaltman]

Perhaps I misunderstood, because I thought we were talking about "veiling glare" the overall milky, diffuse "glare" which drastically reduces image contrast, not peripheral crescent flares.

Fair enough, I was making more general points about all kinds of glare/flare/stray light, but I think the point still stands even for veiling glare. If it's objectively happening (i.e. not an artifact of something in your eyeballs) then you should be able to reproduce it without someone's eyeball involved, and I think veiling glare qualifies.

Well sorta. Is correlation causation?

Causation is causation. This is not correlation, you're directly identifying the source of a physical phenomenon.

 

[GrampaTom]

Binocular owner A says, “Hey I see glare while looking through my new binocs.” He decides to report this to his favorite online binocular review forum.

Some readers of the forum go check their same pair and wonder, as they don’t see glare in theirs.

Optics Expert B, without being with Bino owner A, at the same time, or place, but trying to help, gets a pair of Owner A’s binocs. OEB turns em around, shines a flashlight in the objective, and sees the shiny tip of a screw sticking out past the otherwise perfectly blackened interior and thinks “Aha, Found it! There’s the problem. It’s obvious. You saw glare. I see a screw. ipso facto, cause and effect! This is a design flaw of these.”

Some readers of the forum, thinking they might’ve bought these binos, go “Phew, that was close I almost bought those glare monsters.”

The company who makes and sells Bino Owner A’s binos, experiences flagging sales after 10 years, with little or no consumer complaints, isnt quite sure what happened. They look around and see Bino competitor 2, has just come out with a new model that has a wider field of view by 100’ @ 1000 yds. They don’t mention thats 10’ @ 100 yds or 5’@ 50 yards. So the makers of Bino Owner A’s figure that’s got to be it! So they build a new factory, design a new binocular and announce to the the world they’re bring out a new model called the EBFOVL, (even bigger field of view L).

The folks reading the Bino forum get all excited. Those who thought they might buy Bino Competitor 2’s wide FOV model, stop and wait. Those that bought defend their choice. The day of Bino Company Ones new EBFOVL, model with a sexy, new curvaceous body in screaming Ferrari red arrives, and folks are holding their breath, waiting for first deliveries and reviews.

Meanwhile Owner A, months later had gone to Optometrist C. Opt C performs an exam and says, “Hmm, that’s as well corrected as I can get you. I see cataracts. If you want to see better, you should go to the Ophthalmologist.”

Owner A went to ODocD describes his problem. “Doc things just don’t seem so clear anymore. There was no Aha! with my last new eyeglass prescription. I’m having trouble driving car at night, oncoming headlights make my eyes hurt, AND when I look through my binoculars I see glare.

Ophthalmologist D says, “Well I can fix your vision with these new lens, inserted in your eyes via a short surgical procedure. You’ll see like you are 12 years old again. But I’m sorry, I don’t think I can fix your binos. I did however hear there’s a cool new model coming out from that company that you like that sounds pretty cool.”