Latest IOC Diary Updates (9 Viewers)

[l_raty]

David,
"Our supermatrix (Appendix 2)" is cited in the caption of the book figure: the appendix should be in the book. Not in Oliveros et al, who did not study this taxon.
L -

 

[Paul Clapham]

Steering hard away from the question of whether Vogelkop is a great name (I'd personally prefer the geographic name used in Indonesia for that location, whatever it is, or just "Bird's Head" which is the English name), I would say that "Arfak" is inappropriate for the lorikeet, as the Arfak range is only part of the peninsula and the lorikeet is apparently also in the Tamrau Mountains.

Wikipedia says in its Bird's Head Peninsula article that the Indonesian name is "Kepala Burung" -- which means "Bird Head" according to Google Translate. I can see a lot of articles in Indonesian when I search for that phrase, so perhaps it's official in some way.

OpenStreetMap shows a couple of nature reserves in the area with "Tambrauw" in the name -- its data is open-source but it's supposed to be in the local language.

So those are all "for what it's worth". Probably just a source for more bickering really.

 

[DMW]

Wikipedia says in its Bird's Head Peninsula article that the Indonesian name is "Kepala Burung" -- which means "Bird Head" according to Google Translate. I can see a lot of articles in Indonesian when I search for that phrase, so perhaps it's official in some way.

OpenStreetMap shows a couple of nature reserves in the area with "Tambrauw" in the name -- its data is open-source but it's supposed to be in the local language.

So those are all "for what it's worth". Probably just a source for more bickering really.

It all gets a bit messy when you take into account that "Indonesian" (bahasa Indonesia) is not an indigenous language to West Papua. It wouldn't surprise me if "kepala burung" is derived from a direct translation of the Dutch "vogelkop".
Personally, I think Vogelkop is well-established in English language ornithological literature, and is perfectly fine.

 

[pbjosh]

While these issues can get complicated and contentious, I think that both Vogelkop and Arfak are good names for birds found in the area, even in cases where the name is not perfectly accurate. Changing to another name that doesn't already have an association with W Papua would be disadvantageous, and at first glance it doesn't seem that Vogelkop or Arfak has sufficient argument against it to discontinue. Even Arfak, if not 100% definitive or accurate for a named species, gives someone a very good idea of where a bird might be found and communicates a lot of information to anyone not intimately familiar with W Papuan birds and their distribution.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Wikipedia says in its Bird's Head Peninsula article that the Indonesian name is "Kepala Burung" -- which means "Bird Head" according to Google Translate. I can see a lot of articles in Indonesian when I search for that phrase, so perhaps it's official in some way.

OpenStreetMap shows a couple of nature reserves in the area with "Tambrauw" in the name -- its data is open-source but it's supposed to be in the local language.

So those are all "for what it's worth". Probably just a source for more bickering really.

You could stop the bickering, instantly, and call stuff whatever you like by dropping 'English' from the title of the list?

If the name of the list was changed to simply 'World Bird names' then using Dutch, Bahasa or indiginous names would not be a point of such contention. However, whilst it is supposed to be the English name list, all efforts should be made to use English names where possible, unless there's a good reason not to.

 

[Acanthis]

Hi David

Thanks for posting.
A request. Could you have another look and tell us where Humblotia fits into the tree?
Asking for Jim.....🙂

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

Hi David

Thanks for posting.
A request. Could you have another look and tell us where Humblotia fits into the tree?
Asking for Jim.....🙂

Thank you

Humblotia, very important bird. The position of this species need to be quickly studied

 

[jts1882]

View attachment 1392462

I can't help note the position of Urocynchramidae, in or sister to Ploceoidea. This contrasts with the position as sister to Emberizoidea in that figure in the video of Jon Fjeldså's lecture (see attached screenshot). According to Wink (2021; figure 8), which reproduces the figure, this is the phylogeny from The Largest Avian Radiation. Is Wink mistaken or is there some inconsistency in the book between the chapters and appendix?

 

[DDonsker]

Hi David

Thanks for posting.
A request. Could you have another look and tell us where Humblotia fits into the tree?
Asking for Jim.....🙂

It's unresolved. They tentatively park it in a basal position within the tribe Muscicapini in the subfamily Muscicapinae.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

It's unresolved. They tentatively park it in a basal position within the tribe Muscicapini in the subfamily Muscicapinae.

I will see it in the Vangidae because of its distribution

 

[DDonsker]

David,
"Our supermatrix (Appendix 2)" is cited in the caption of the book figure: the appendix should be in the book. Not in Oliveros et al, who did not study this taxon.
L -

Laurent,

Turns out that Carpospiza isn't actually included in their supermatrix in Appendix 2. But it is treated in their main text as we've discussed. Jon has also just confirmed to me that the reference to Oliveros et al. is in error. He's checking with his co-authors regarding all of this. I'll provide follow up when I hear back from him.

David

 

[Andy Adcock]

Can we perhaps keep this thread simply to IOC updates and keep the etymology stuff in the right place?

 

[Acanthis]

Can we perhaps keep this thread simply to IOC updates and keep the etymology stuff in the right place?

Andy, I got the impression it was more about bickering than updating😆

 

[Acanthis]

Can we perhaps keep this thread simply to IOC updates and keep the etymology stuff in the right place?

Regarding Andy's comment. Is it possible for a moderator to remove part of a thread to another thread?
I'm thinking all the useful "Xolmiini" stuff could be shifted to the Xolmiini thread, or perhaps both placed in the Tyrannides thread.

Can we make that happen?

 

[gusasp]

Back to IOC updates:

June 26 Accept split of Greyish Saltator into Cinnamon-bellied, Olivaceous, and Blue-grey Saltators. English names provisional pending SACC.

June 26 Accept split of Pied Myna into three species.

June 25 Provisionally accept newly described species Satin Berrypecker.

June 25 Revise the English names of the splits of Athene jacquinoti from 'boobook" to "owl".

 

[viator]

June 26 Split Small Crow Corvus samarensis (including sierramadrensis) from Slender-billed Crow.

June 26 Accept split of Calabarzon Babbler Sterrhoptilus affinis from Visayan (Black-capped) Babbler Sterrhoptilus nigrocapitatus.

June 26 Accept multiple splits of Rufous Antpitta complex.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Back to IOC updates:

June 26 Accept split of Greyish Saltator into Cinnamon-bellied, Olivaceous, and Blue-grey Saltators. English names provisional pending SACC.

June 26 Accept split of Pied Myna into three species.

June 25 Provisionally accept newly described species Satin Berrypecker.

June 25 Revise the English names of the splits of Athene jacquinoti from 'boobook" to "owl".

What's the origin of Boobook, is it onomatopoeic?

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

What's the origin of Boobook, is it onomatopoeic?

Yes, aboriginal origin

 

[Mysticete]

June 27 Revise the generic classification of the family Phalacrocoracidae.


June 27 Restore Pale Rockfinch to Passeridae pending further clarification of its phylogenetic status.

Looks like our discussion here did have an effect...

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

June 27 Restore Pale Rockfinch to Passeridae pending further clarification of its phylogenetic status.

🙄🙄🙄🙄