Glare, when and how to test in shop (1 Viewer)

[retired2021]

Watching these forum discussions I have seen numerous posts about some bino’s being possibly more sensitive to glare than others.
The conclusion that I draw is that it seems that some people don’t perceive issues with “glare sensitive bino’s” where others, with the same binocular do face problems. There are a variety of possible explanations being mentioned, like face geometry, observation circumstances and many others. For me as a beginner, it is also not always exactly clear what the definition of glare is.
So my questions are:

• What exactly would I see when I'd see glare? Maybe a silly question, but it all starts with a clear definition....
• What are the observation circumstances where glare shows up most when it does?
• What tests can I do when I am in a shop, evaluating different bino’s, to find out if I am a person sensitive to glare or not?
  In a shop it’s impossible to evaluate all observation scenario’s that I will face in real life, so is there an evaluation that I can do to find out if glare would be a potential issue for me anyway when I consider buying a bino that is by some people in the forum considered as a bino with a “glare problem”?

 

[Ivydwg]

I find glare more prominent in high contrast situations, particularly at dusk on bright days, often near the horizon. Tends to show as a milky white crescent and/or halo, often in around the lower edges of the lenses.

I have a pair of Hawke Frontier ED-X which are rather poor at controlling controlling glare, my Zeiss FL's are much better.

TBH I am not sure how well you would be able to test glare in a shop, unless you are going somewhere that has an outside viewing area?

 

[GrampaTom]

I look forward to the answers to your first question……

 

[dries1]

Well you have posted this on the Swarovski sub-forum, you have come to the right place. There is a large amount of information on that subject matter here.

 

[retired2021]

Well you have posted this on the Swarovski sub-forum, you have come to the right place. There is a large amount of information on that subject matter here.

That is exactly the reason why I put the thread on the Swarovki side.
I noticed numerous thoughts and evaluations on glare.
But I could not digest the key things for me from those: What is glare? When do you see it? And how can I find out if I should consider glare as an issue for myself when I want to buy and Alpha bino that some people seem to have serious glare problems with.
Hence I decided to take a step back and start this thread….. Thanks all for your thoughts!

 

[jan van daalen]

That is exactly the reason why I put the thread on the Swarovki side.
I noticed numerous thoughts and evaluations on glare.
But I could not digest the key things for me from those: What is glare? When do you see it? And how can I find out if I should consider glare as an issue for myself when I want to buy and Alpha bino that some people seem to have serious glare problems with.
Hence I decided to take a step back and start this thread….. Thanks all for your thoughts!

I think you answered your own questions.
Glare is mentioned in the numerous thoughts and evaluations. Some to be taken more serious than others but at the end it is all about what you see and not what others claim to see or not to see.
So...... look through that bin and if you see it, it is there for you and if you don't, it isn't there........for you.
Some see the Absam ring, Rolling Ball, the Blue Ring and or Glare and others just don't.

It's really that simple.

Jan

 

[retired2021]

I think you answered your own questions.
Glare is mentioned in the numerous thoughts and evaluations. Some to be taken more serious than others but at the end it is all about what you see and not what others claim to see or not to see.
So...... look through that bin and if you see it, it is there for you and if you don't, it isn't there........for you.
Some see the Absam ring, Rolling Ball, the Blue Ring and or Glare and others just don't.

It's really that simple.

Jan

My 3 questions are still there.....

 

[dries1]

Welcome to Bird forum, I should have said this in my intro.
One thing I can say with confidence, is that testing a binocular for various characteristics is only truly completed outside. Inside a shop one can get a sense of the field of view, fit to the eyes, but that is it. I guess one could pan the glass to see if a flat field binocular is bothersome, but that is it in my opinion.
If you are interested in any particular model from Swarovski, I would try one out say in the shop, decide which one you like, then spend some time with them in the field, morning, noon and at dusk. Taking the views in various lighting scenarios will give you an idea if glare is a problem for you. If you don't like the particular binocular you can return them to the store providing they have a return policy.

Andy W.

 

[Ratal]

Watching these forum discussions I have seen numerous posts about some bino’s being possibly more sensitive to glare than others.
The conclusion that I draw is that it seems that some people don’t perceive issues with “glare sensitive bino’s” where others, with the same binocular do face problems. There are a variety of possible explanations being mentioned, like face geometry, observation circumstances and many others. For me as a beginner, it is also not always exactly clear what the definition of glare is.
So my questions are:

• What exactly would I see when I'd see glare? Maybe a silly question, but it all starts with a clear definition....
• What are the observation circumstances where glare shows up most when it does?
• What tests can I do when I am in a shop, evaluating different bino’s, to find out if I am a person sensitive to glare or not?
  In a shop it’s impossible to evaluate all observation scenario’s that I will face in real life, so is there an evaluation that I can do to find out if glare would be a potential issue for me anyway when I consider buying a bino that is by some people in the forum considered as a bino with a “glare problem”?

A) A veiling of the image. It turns a little milky, like a fog over the image. In bad glare cases, you will see a degradation of image beyond that which is tolerable.
B) Towards sunlight - for a good binocular you will be dangerously close to the sun's field of view before you get glare. In a poorly baffled and controlled unit, the milky veil starts at say 45 degrees angle to the sun.
You will also get some in setting or rising sunlight - But that is because you are fighting the direct rays.
C) Get the bino - Go to the window, and stand in the sunlight. Raise the binoculars to your eyes and pan towards the sun slowly keeping in mind where it is above you. . You will see glare beginning IF the binocular is susceptible.

 

[retired2021]

Thank you Ratal and others for your valuable input.
These are exactly the answers that I was seeking, they will help me in making the right choice when I compare for example Swarovski's 8/10x42/32 NL Pure models with the "corresponding Zeiss models".
Any additional thoughts are highly appreciated!

 

[henry link]

I would suggest a few other things. First, be sure to adjust the eyecup length of the NL Pure until it is just a little bit longer than the point where you see kidney beaning and then adjust the IPD for the best centering. This is where the NL will show the least glare, perhaps also the Zeiss SF, but I haven't tried that one.

Do the test outdoors with an open sky above and the sun directly above the line of sight of the binoculars at 45-20º from the FOV. Then look into a dark backlit area that fills the binocular field. Looking at a dark field will enhance the glare's visibility. All the glare I've ever seen coming from the front of binoculars has come from light glancing off metallic or plastic interior parts and then back toward the eyepiece where it appears at the edge of the exit pupil as bright non image forming light that will enter the eye if the eye's pupil is large enough and/or is aligned with the exit pupil in a way that allows the glare at the exit pupil edge to overlap the edge of the eyes pupil. Individual sensitivity has nothing to with it. If there are internal reflections near the edge of the exit pupil and those reflections enter the eye's pupil they will be seen.

 

[Maljunulo]

My 10X42 EL SV would show a milky, foggy, veil and loss of contrast when direct low-angle sunlight fell directly onto the objectives.

I would just go find something else to look at.

 

[nzwild]

Certain cloudy situations with 'stray light' also enhance veiling glare (rare but when it happens its very obvious). It causes a very significant loss of contrast of the image.
Lower sun angles when investigating shady areas is the other situation when poor glare performance is noticeable. Loss of contrast is more of an issue in this scenario as you are already observing an area with poor light conditions.

What circumstances: as above
What do you see: Milky view with loss of contrast
What tests can you do in the shop: ??? The best way to test is to test in real conditions. Glare management is part of the package if you use your instrument in difficult light conditions and is just another aspect of the total design.

 

[Maljunulo]

Personally, I wouldn't obsess about, neither would I go out of my way to make it happen by performing a "test".

 

[retired2021]

Thank you all again for your very valuable input.
I learn a lot from your comments and the glare phenomenon starts to get clear and understood to me.
Learning about the backgrounds of optics is an enjoyable part of selecting a nice bino!
I'm also well aware of the fact that things like Glare, Absam rings, Rolling Balls and Blue Rings are so heavily discussed in these forums potentially includes the risk that one starts focussing more on these performance aspects than on the more basic quality aspects of the different binoculars in the market place. The key thing is to find the right balance!

 

[Maljunulo]

I'm also well aware of the fact that things like Glare, Absam rings, Rolling Balls and Blue Rings are so heavily discussed in these forums potentially includes the risk that one starts focussing more on these performance aspects than on the more basic quality aspects of the different binoculars in the market place.

Bingo!

 

[NDhunter]

You cannot test glare or flare inside a shop. It takes much more than that.

Jerry

 

[_Prism_]

You cannot test glare or flare inside a shop. It takes much more than that.

Jerry

Jerry I was testing several Zeiss and Swaro's in store yesterday, and the NL showed a significant effect. By chance I was looking down a long hallway with a spotlight facing right at me from a slightly higher angle above me. I experienced what I initially thought was a bad smudge in the lower half of the right eyepiece (the light was also slightly towards my right at 2 o' clock- the left view was unaffected). Not being used to glare / flare, I initially went looking for a smudge to clean but was surprised to find it was just glare from the light - so it definitely is possible to see these effects in a shop. I repeatedly saw the glare / flare as I brought the bins up to my face and it disappeared the moment I moved slightly away from the direct path of the spotlight.
Interestingly, I didn't see the same effect on either the EL's or the SF's, but realistically even a slight variation of position or movement in a different direction would be enough to not be able to see it.

 

[SUPPRESSOR]

Jerry I was testing several Zeiss and Swaro's in store yesterday, and the NL showed a significant effect. By chance I was looking down a long hallway with a spotlight facing right at me from a slightly higher angle above me. I experienced what I initially thought was a bad smudge in the lower half of the right eyepiece (the light was also slightly towards my right at 2 o' clock- the left view was unaffected). Not being used to glare / flare, I initially went looking for a smudge to clean but was surprised to find it was just glare from the light - so it definitely is possible to see these effects in a shop. I repeatedly saw the glare / flare as I brought the bins up to my face and it disappeared the moment I moved slightly away from the direct path of the spotlight.
Interestingly, I didn't see the same effect on either the EL's or the SF's, but realistically even a slight variation of position or movement in a different direction would be enough to not be able to see it.

I was on the south coast of Cornwall this afternoon looking out to sea the lighting conditions were perfect for inducing glare No glare what's so ever looking through my 12x42 NL Pure.Best view I have had through any of the top binoculars I have owned and that's most of them.
Peter.

 

[_Prism_]

I was on the south coast of Cornwall this afternoon looking out to sea the lighting conditions were perfect for inducing glare No glare what's so ever looking through my 12x42 NL Pure.Best view I have had through any of the top binoculars I have owned and that's most of them.
Peter.

I've had an 8x32 EL SV for the past 4 years (a bin notorious for glare) and have never experienced any issues. Then again I can't think of any time I've pointed them in the near direct path of an extremely bright light source (such as the sun) - perhaps mostly out of a sense of self preservation. As it was with the spotlight incident, I can't imagine glare to be a significant issue unless you're pointed just a few degrees away the sun - in which case a little glare might be the least of your worries (at least if you value your corneas).