Zoom F3 and Rode NTG5 not playing well together (1 Viewer)

[Lerxst]

After months of deciding how to upgrade my field setup, I recently purchased both of these items. Setting everything up per the Zoom manual, I was disappointed to find myself recording horrific noise of an intermittent nature. The only way to mitigate it was to select 24V phantom power instead of the specified 48V for this mic. This is clearly not a real 'solution' and there is something quite wrong here.

I immediately contacted both manufacturers, and got immediate response from Zoom, but nothing from Rode. The root cause remains undetermined, but some searching revealed various reddit threads and a Youtube video that chronicle similar noise and RF interference problems, noted when connecting this mic to a Zoom F6.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocationSound/comments/10fn23z

I am leaning towards the mic as being the culprit. Today I will try to contact Rode by phone and see what they have to say. If they are not proactive about helping me solve this, I will likely send it back for a refund and look into the MKE 600, although it does not look as good as the NTG5 on paper.

Not a good return on a (total) $850 investment so far...

 

[CMB]

After months of deciding how to upgrade my field setup, I recently purchased both of these items. Setting everything up per the Zoom manual, I was disappointed to find myself recording horrific noise of an intermittent nature. The only way to mitigate it was to select 24V phantom power instead of the specified 48V for this mic. This is clearly not a real 'solution' and there is something quite wrong here.

I immediately contacted both manufacturers, and got immediate response from Zoom, but nothing from Rode. The root cause remains undetermined, but some searching revealed various reddit threads and a Youtube video that chronicle similar noise and RF interference problems, noted when connecting this mic to a Zoom F6.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocationSound/comments/10fn23z

I am leaning towards the mic as being the culprit. Today I will try to contact Rode by phone and see what they have to say. If they are not proactive about helping me solve this, I will likely send it back for a refund and look into the MKE 600, although it does not look as good as the NTG5 on paper.

Not a good return on a (total) $850 investment so far...

Do you have a regular XLR mic cable that you could swap out for the Rode PG2-R Pro Cable to see if it could be Rode’s cable design and/or construction possibly causing the issue?

 

[Lerxst]

Do you have a regular XLR mic cable that you could swap out for the Rode PG2-R Pro Cable to see if it could be Rode’s cable design and/or construction possibly causing the issue?

Yes. I have already swapped everything imaginable! It isn't the cabling, unfortunately.

I did talk to Rode today. The individual on the phone stated that they are aware of "some" NTG5 mics showing an issue with 48V. I was hoping Rode would have been proactive in their investigation of this. The issues with NTG5 and Zoom F6 were brought to light two years ago. I'd have thought they would have gotten some Zoom hardware and figured out the problem by now. What I wanted to hear was "we will verify a mic for you here and send you that ASAP. Send us the noisy one so so we can do the failure analysis." Rather, his advice was to exchange it for another one via the retailer. Well, I did send it back this evening, but I'm not sure I want to try this mic again - based on what my online searches are turning up. Many people have gotten a second mic from them only to have the same issue return, sometimes after longer periods of use. Someone started a thread on xeno-canto about this happening to them twice.
If I give them another shot it will be with a different model. The Macauley Library has highly recommened the NTG2 in the past, even though the specs are not that impressive.

 

[CMB]

Yes. I have already swapped everything imaginable! It isn't the cabling, unfortunately.

I did talk to Rode today. The individual on the phone stated that they are aware of "some" NTG5 mics showing an issue with 48V. I was hoping Rode would have been proactive in their investigation of this. The issues with NTG5 and Zoom F6 were brought to light two years ago. I'd have thought they would have gotten some Zoom hardware and figured out the problem by now. What I wanted to hear was "we will verify a mic for you here and send you that ASAP. Send us the noisy one so so we can do the failure analysis." Rather, his advice was to exchange it for another one via the retailer. Well, I did send it back this evening, but I'm not sure I want to try this mic again - based on what my online searches are turning up. Many people have gotten a second mic from them only to have the same issue return, sometimes after longer periods of use. Someone started a thread on xeno-canto about this happening to them twice.
If I give them another shot it will be with a different model. The Macauley Library has highly recommened the NTG2 in the past, even though the specs are not that impressive.

That is an unfortunate response from Rode regarding the issue.

When selecting a mic keep in mind the outside conditions in which you may record. More expensive mics such as Rode NTG-3 and the old (but still very good) Sennheiser MKH-416 are RF condenser mics and can handle humid environments and wide temperature ranges. This makes them very good for field work, and they will hold up for many years.

The Rode NTG-2 and Sennheiser MKE-600 are electret designs and don’t handle harsh conditions as well, but they cost less.

Not all mics capture the low and high end frequencies the same. Some species such as grouse can have low bass frequencies to their calls. It may be something to keep in thought depending on what birds you may want to record.

In terms of pricing for new:
Sennheiser MKE-600 ~ $330 (USD)
Rode NTG3 ~ $700 (USD)
Sennheiser MKH-416 ~ $1,000 (USD)

It’s a pretty even step in terms of price, but with the NTG3 and MKH-416 having the added benefit of handling harsher conditions.

Adding a furry/dead cat mic cover to my shotgun mic made a huge improvement in reducing wind and improving recording quality. It is lighter in weight, more compact, and less expensive than a blimp. There are times a blimp would be a help, but the portability and light weight of the F3 and shotgun with a furry let me take the setup with me all the time.

 

[Lerxst]

^ Yep, I have been looking at those mics, and a number of others, in terms of desired performance vs cost sweet spot. Multivariate optimization is always a headache! Other interesting models for field recording that caught my eye were the HC-15 and 22 from Rycote, both around $800, but they sacrifice even more low end (50 Hz) for reduced self noise. It is an interesting trade off to contemplate, given the paucity of grouse and Horned Guans I run across.

It all makes the experience with the NTG5 more aggravating because it is by far the obvious choice at that price point. It seemed too good to be true, and alas, it was.

The MKE 600 and NTG2 had made my initial short list because I'd set a $500 spending limit, but after this experience I'm looking hard at opening up my budget a bit...

 

[Vollmeise]

Hi there. Maybe You should think about some used High-End RF Mics instead of new midrange gear.

Using both the Sennheiser MKH70 and MKH8070 for some years now I really know what I'm speaking about and can highly recommend those cristal clear, high sensitive (MKH8070: 112mV/Pa) and low noise (MKH70: 5dB SNR, A-weighted, MKH8070: 8 dB SNR A-weighted) beasts.

Cheers)

 

[Tyrone Akanni]

After months of deciding how to upgrade my field setup, I recently purchased both of these items. Setting everything up per the Zoom manual, I was disappointed to find myself recording horrific noise of an intermittent nature. The only way to mitigate it was to select 24V phantom power instead of the specified 48V for this mic. This is clearly not a real 'solution' and there is something quite wrong here.

I immediately contacted both manufacturers, and got immediate response from Zoom, but nothing from Rode. The root cause remains undetermined, but some searching revealed various reddit threads and a Youtube video that chronicle similar noise and RF interference problems, noted when connecting this mic to a Zoom F6.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocationSound/comments/10fn23z

I am leaning towards the mic as being the culprit. Today I will try to contact Rode by phone and see what they have to say. If they are not proactive about helping me solve this, I will likely send it back for a refund and look into the MKE 600, although it does not look as good as the NTG5 on paper.

Not a good return on a (total) $850 investment so far...

I have recently bought the zoom f3 and I was thinking of buying the NTG5, I think it is the best option, but seeing what you say, now I have many doubts. Do you know anything about it? have they solved anything? if not, what other microphones do you recommend?

 

[Lerxst]

I have recently bought the zoom f3 and I was thinking of buying the NTG5, I think it is the best option, but seeing what you say, now I have many doubts. Do you know anything about it? have they solved anything? if not, what other microphones do you recommend?

Hi Tyrone:

I understand the desire to go with that mic. On paper it looks perfect. But as I mentioned, I am not the only person that has come across this problem. Knowing what I know now, I would suggest:

1. If you do want to try this mic, perhaps it would be wise to start a dialog with RODE before you make a purchase, and tell them what you are doing and why you have some trepidation. They might be more accomodating and responsive. When I contacted them it took many weeks before they did anything.

Here is an excerpt from the final email exchange I had with them. They wrote:

"Unfortunately, we are unable to replicate the same issue with our testing equipment. We are sorry to hear about your experience. If you'd like to give the NTG-5 another try, we recommend purchasing it through an authorized dealer listed on the link, below:

NTG5 | Broadcast-grade Shotgun Microphone| RØDE

If for any reason you encounter further issues, we are more than happy to replace and test a new microphone prior to shipping it out to you."

Note that they were not testing my specific mic, which I returned to Amazon long before they got back to me. My understanding is that if you have to send the mic to them, it will be up to you to pay for the shipping.

2. I eventually went with the Sennheiser MKH-416, which is basically twice the cost of the RODE without any significant gain in any specifications. But there is a huge performance difference for me.... an obvious lack of horrific RF noise!

 

[Tyrone Akanni]

Hi Tyrone:

I understand the desire to go with that mic. On paper it looks perfect. But as I mentioned, I am not the only person that has come across this problem. Knowing what I know now, I would suggest:

1. If you do want to try this mic, perhaps it would be wise to start a dialog with RODE before you make a purchase, and tell them what you are doing and why you have some trepidation. They might be more accomodating and responsive. When I contacted them it took many weeks before they did anything.

Here is an excerpt from the final email exchange I had with them. They wrote:

"Unfortunately, we are unable to replicate the same issue with our testing equipment. We are sorry to hear about your experience. If you'd like to give the NTG-5 another try, we recommend purchasing it through an authorized dealer listed on the link, below:

NTG5 | Broadcast-grade Shotgun Microphone| RØDE

If for any reason you encounter further issues, we are more than happy to replace and test a new microphone prior to shipping it out to you."

Note that they were not testing my specific mic, which I returned to Amazon long before they got back to me. My understanding is that if you have to send the mic to them, it will be up to you to pay for the shipping.

2. I eventually went with the Sennheiser MKH-416, which is basically twice the cost of the RODE without any significant gain in any specifications. But there is a huge performance difference for me.... an obvious lack of horrific RF noise!

What happens is that it is curious that I have a colleague who is using this combination and does not have the problem. I imagine that either Rode does not have a good manufacturing quality control or manufactures the mics in two different places or with different component distributors.

 

[Lerxst]

What happens is that it is curious that I have a colleague who is using this combination and does not have the problem. I imagine that either Rode does not have a good manufacturing quality control or manufactures the mics in two different places or with different component distributors.

Agreed. If I had more patience, and if they were willing to pay for the shipping, I'd take them up on their offer to run, break, return, test, replace, etc., until they understand the root cause and I got a usuable mic. The fact that they seem less than enthused about chasing down this problem makes me very unimpressed, though. Moreover this is not an issue that just cropped up last month. It has been going on for years with this design.

Also relevant: a xeno-canto discussion (the last post is from me, but there is another recordist reporting problems with the RODE and other recorders): RODE NTG5 vs Sennheiser MKE 600 :: topic 43220 :: xeno-canto. Note that the OP got a replacement mic from RODE that failed a year later.

 

[Borjam]

It is really curious.

And is it only happening with a Zoom F3?

I own a NTG8 and I have used it with a MixPre 3, no issues at all. Moreover, I remember I was curious about the RF shielding on the NTG8 (I know, it´s a different beast but still RF polarized as well) and it had an awesome RF interference rejection.

I think it might be a case of RF leaking through the cable (conducted interference). Can you try to use a ferrite clamp on the microphone cable, maybe a couple of turns or so? It might filter it in that case.

You should be able to source TDK ferrites everywhere in the world. Beware where you buy "generic" ones, I have heard of fakes fitted to USB cables.

 

[Lerxst]

I sent that mic back after a few days and so I won't be doing any further troubleshooting or experimentation with it.

Per several of the references I linked above, the Youtube review and the X-C thread, this problem has been seen with other recorders, not just the F3.

 

[Tyrone Akanni]

In the end I have used the F3 with two NTG5 connected and without any problem of noises or something similar. Maybe they have solved something in rode.

 

[S_Man]

In the end I have used the F3 with two NTG5 connected and without any problem of noises or something similar. Maybe they have solved something in rode.

Most people don't have this problem, and to this date it seems that both the F3 (with its limitations) and NTG5 are best value for money, and most compact and lightest alternatives.
BTW, I just registered my mic on Rode website, and they offer a 10 years guarantee for this model. I hope I'll never need it, though.

 

[Borjam]

I have been making searches and the problem is not exclusive to the Zoom F3, which was a bit shocking.

So, I would advise caution. A pity, I own a NTG-8 and so far it's been great.