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Grimley and Holt (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Brian Stretch
- Start date
rollingthunder
Well-known member
No posts since Jan - looks like either Twitter or WhatsApp groups have, like many other threads of this type, claimed another scalp.....
Or it could be that there hasn't been much to report at Grimmers since Ian's visit. If my visit on Sunday 1100-1230 is anything to go on then I am not surprised - I have to say quite possibly the quietest least notable during any time of year like ever and this is supposed to be during Spring migration.
No waders of any species heard or seen. I would normally expect Lapwing, Redshank, Oystercatcher and LrP to not only be present but all potentially breeding.
No Common Tern.
Very few Duck, there are usually good numbers of Gadwall but hardly any birds present.
No migrant Wagtails and only a couple of Pied.
One each of Swallow and House Martin - the place was heaving with insect food.
Only 5 species of Warbler recorded including Reed and Sedge.
No Orchids along the paths not even basal leaves. The species that have been present over the last few years are perennial so there should be some signs - is this a sign of overgrazing from the sheep owned by the resident 'Laird of Grimmers"?
When I first visited the place had a nice 'open' feel to it, uncluttered by 'management' paraphernalia, car parking and hides. Instead it is sheep-fenced and horse paddocked as far as you can see save for the cereal fields. For me it has lost the slightly wild feel that had developed following the cessation of Gravel extraction.
I know migration is considered to be 'late' but when does that merge with the simple fact that habitat degradation and associated decline in invertebrate food coupled with too many people and poor air quality means that seeing very little becomes the 'norm"?
Good birding.....if you can find any -
Laurie -
Or it could be that there hasn't been much to report at Grimmers since Ian's visit. If my visit on Sunday 1100-1230 is anything to go on then I am not surprised - I have to say quite possibly the quietest least notable during any time of year like ever and this is supposed to be during Spring migration.
No waders of any species heard or seen. I would normally expect Lapwing, Redshank, Oystercatcher and LrP to not only be present but all potentially breeding.
No Common Tern.
Very few Duck, there are usually good numbers of Gadwall but hardly any birds present.
No migrant Wagtails and only a couple of Pied.
One each of Swallow and House Martin - the place was heaving with insect food.
Only 5 species of Warbler recorded including Reed and Sedge.
No Orchids along the paths not even basal leaves. The species that have been present over the last few years are perennial so there should be some signs - is this a sign of overgrazing from the sheep owned by the resident 'Laird of Grimmers"?
When I first visited the place had a nice 'open' feel to it, uncluttered by 'management' paraphernalia, car parking and hides. Instead it is sheep-fenced and horse paddocked as far as you can see save for the cereal fields. For me it has lost the slightly wild feel that had developed following the cessation of Gravel extraction.
I know migration is considered to be 'late' but when does that merge with the simple fact that habitat degradation and associated decline in invertebrate food coupled with too many people and poor air quality means that seeing very little becomes the 'norm"?
Good birding.....if you can find any -
Laurie -
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
Try this for size Laurie
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Size certainly matters Phil particularly with this veritable Monster of the Marshes.
I certainly heard nothing on Sunday except for the Frog Chorus......
Without wishing to p1ss in Josh's sink - it certainly 'sounds' like it 'could' be a GRW but if I may inject a bit of caution and for the following reasons:
Only the finder can ascertain the volume level of the bird but by definition if it is in subsong then it will be quieter and more muted. Josh admits to not having any previous experience and importantly did not see the bird. I don't know the viewing conditions or restraints on time but I like to think I would have hung around and/or possibly got to the higher ground above the Frog Pool to try and locate where the bird is vocalising and hopefully get some clinching views and a record photo(s) - a Warbler the size of a Song Thrush can't, fingers firmly crossed, hide forever.....
I have just returned from Eilat and had a number of GRW both in the hand at the Ringing Station and a few on passage. I had one bird in full song and several with distinct churry type grunts but never heard any in what I would call subsong - that could be because they were not on their breeding grounds as most of the many Warblers I saw did not sing and were clearly on passage.
In addition there are Sedge Warblers now present at Grimmers. The couple I heard on Sunday were in typical song but the species is a renowned mimic perhaps not on the same par as Marsh which I have heard in Poland in full song incorporating both GRW and River/Savi's type calls and at full volume sound like the real deal.....at least to my ears anyway. Both species winter, pass thru and breed in virtually the same areas, which are huge, so plenty of time to hone mimetic skills. It also begs the question (to me anyway) where does subsong of one closely-related species end and full one of the other c/w with all the bells, whistles, clicks and churrs begin?
If I were the County Recorder it would have to go in the probable/possible pigeon-hole for the reasons given above.
I do hope it is one and if a GRW is relocated not too far away than vindication awaits but the Twitter back-slappers were not actually there. The problem is that the potential mimics were and without an image it is potentially haebus corpus imho.
Good birding -
Laurie -
Attached: Monster Monster.
I certainly heard nothing on Sunday except for the Frog Chorus......
Without wishing to p1ss in Josh's sink - it certainly 'sounds' like it 'could' be a GRW but if I may inject a bit of caution and for the following reasons:
Only the finder can ascertain the volume level of the bird but by definition if it is in subsong then it will be quieter and more muted. Josh admits to not having any previous experience and importantly did not see the bird. I don't know the viewing conditions or restraints on time but I like to think I would have hung around and/or possibly got to the higher ground above the Frog Pool to try and locate where the bird is vocalising and hopefully get some clinching views and a record photo(s) - a Warbler the size of a Song Thrush can't, fingers firmly crossed, hide forever.....
I have just returned from Eilat and had a number of GRW both in the hand at the Ringing Station and a few on passage. I had one bird in full song and several with distinct churry type grunts but never heard any in what I would call subsong - that could be because they were not on their breeding grounds as most of the many Warblers I saw did not sing and were clearly on passage.
In addition there are Sedge Warblers now present at Grimmers. The couple I heard on Sunday were in typical song but the species is a renowned mimic perhaps not on the same par as Marsh which I have heard in Poland in full song incorporating both GRW and River/Savi's type calls and at full volume sound like the real deal.....at least to my ears anyway. Both species winter, pass thru and breed in virtually the same areas, which are huge, so plenty of time to hone mimetic skills. It also begs the question (to me anyway) where does subsong of one closely-related species end and full one of the other c/w with all the bells, whistles, clicks and churrs begin?
If I were the County Recorder it would have to go in the probable/possible pigeon-hole for the reasons given above.
I do hope it is one and if a GRW is relocated not too far away than vindication awaits but the Twitter back-slappers were not actually there. The problem is that the potential mimics were and without an image it is potentially haebus corpus imho.
Good birding -
Laurie -
Attached: Monster Monster.
Attachments
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Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
FWIW I've listened to Josh's video and I'd say it bears all the necessary hallmarks of GRW - no doubt in my mind. The low volume most likely to do with imperceivable distance and/or wind conditions than anything else I expect. On my trips to Lesvos they were particularly common, even in non-typical scrub habitats away from water - sometimes being a bit problematic when listening out for Olive Tree Warblers.
The other thing I'd add is I expect there's a reasonable chance it's still present. One feature of this spring I've noticed is that many birds, although present, seem to be singing less frequently than in previous years - maybe because they are preoccupied with finding insect food - which seems to be scarce at the moment.
The other thing I'd add is I expect there's a reasonable chance it's still present. One feature of this spring I've noticed is that many birds, although present, seem to be singing less frequently than in previous years - maybe because they are preoccupied with finding insect food - which seems to be scarce at the moment.
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Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
This one would be for the BBRC to determine assuming Josh submits it (which I believe he should).
All the responses to date via Twitter (and the bird info services) have been positive, many of whom don't have any vested interest.
All the responses to date via Twitter (and the bird info services) have been positive, many of whom don't have any vested interest.
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Agreed and hopefully it will be submitted. I tend to err on the side of caution with records like this and pay scant attention to social media. It has to get past the County Recorder first.....
Good birding -
Laurie -
Good birding -
Laurie -
Woodchat
Cogito ergo sum
For me the drawn out squeaky motifs are pretty characteristic - never personally heard Reed or Sedge mimic them with quite the same quality - but quite reminiscent of Icterine and some Hippolais congeners.
Would be interesting to get a sonograph of the recording if possible.
Would be interesting to get a sonograph of the recording if possible.
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Agreed Dave. If I was walking past (and I did a day or so earlier!) I would deffo think hmmm but would put some time and possibly elevation into finding the source. Maybe Josh didn't have the time etc. There are lots of old brick extraction pits in that area that are relatively inaccessible iirc one or two are used for ringing so it could be skulking in the sort of non-Reed type habitat that you would get them in abroad.
Laurie -
Laurie -
rollingthunder
Well-known member
A mate (yes I do have them) says it's a classic Variable Reed Warbler
Laurie -
Laurie -
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
No - there is no clearance required from the County Recorder before items are to be considered by the BBRC. If you look at BBRC's Work In Progress file you will a number of entries that would never clear any process (often from Alvecote ....)
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Phil - how little I know. My understanding was that County Recorders did the initial assessment in order to free up the 'Rare Men' from spurious reports. I don't check WIP.
Laurie -
Dave - maybe Brian could unleash the resident rare/scarce bird magnet if so I have no doubt that it would be nailed and subsequently referred to as the 'Craig Reed Warbler'
Laurie -
Phil Andrews
It's only Rock and Roller but I like it
I think Josh has that mantle having also found the Lickey Hills Melodious WarblerPhil - how little I know. My understanding was that County Recorders did the initial assessment in order to free up the 'Rare Men' from spurious reports. I don't check WIP.
Dave - maybe Brian could unleash the resident rare/scarce bird magnet if so I have no doubt that it would be nailed and subsequently referred to as the 'Craig Reed Warbler'
Laurie -
Hi Laurie,
I gave it 25 mins and no sign of the bird showing. It's a big bird but we all know these Acro warblers can skulk. I hear the 2013 GRW was elusive. I did not have time to stick around any longer (back to work - only a lunch break). Sonograms have been analysed by the great Andy Warr, who despite amateur quality of my footage has been able to decipher clear similarities to GRW. The county recorder and all other birders I've spoken to are in (strong) support of the identification. They all also comment that they have never heard RW make replicate that sequence of grough notes, so not sure your mate has it right with the 'classic variable reed warbler'. A friend returned from Lesvos last week and heard GRW in sub-song in hotel grounds, sounds spot on apparently. In any case, I would be extremely surprised if the BBRC raised any issue with it once they hear the recording.
Good birding...
Ian Byrnes
Well-known member
rollingthunder
Well-known member
Hi Josh -
The VRW was a joke btw
FWIW I am in the GRW camp I only put up some cautionary thoughts that's all. I certainly heard nothing on Sunday so I like to think it wasn't there mate although we did spend a bit of time looking for Orchids with nary a sign. I found what I consider the Wasp Orchid .var trollii along that bit 3 years ago and still hope it and/or others will pop up with the Bee. My mate and I were the last ones to see your Melodious Warbler as we picked it up singing about 300 yards from where others were standing and staring at where it was last seen. A nice distinct singing bird that flew off and the rest as they say.....
ATB and good birding -
Laurie
The VRW was a joke btw
FWIW I am in the GRW camp I only put up some cautionary thoughts that's all. I certainly heard nothing on Sunday so I like to think it wasn't there mate although we did spend a bit of time looking for Orchids with nary a sign. I found what I consider the Wasp Orchid .var trollii along that bit 3 years ago and still hope it and/or others will pop up with the Bee. My mate and I were the last ones to see your Melodious Warbler as we picked it up singing about 300 yards from where others were standing and staring at where it was last seen. A nice distinct singing bird that flew off and the rest as they say.....
ATB and good birding -
Laurie
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rollingthunder
Well-known member
A couple of hours doing a figure of 8 circuit of all pools yesterday.
Ca40 Wigeon on the 2 new pools with nearly as many Gadwall plus a male/1w Stonechat on the right-hand one.
A very pale Buzzard on the distant fence line. I did think of possible Rough-leg but it's been at least 20 years since I have seen one so I left it as the former.
The Wagon Wheel PH is now closed for conversion to houses.
Likewise the WW pools are undergoing conversion with newly constructed fishing platforms here and there. Quite what this means for both breeding birds and wintering remains to be seen but in my experience when there is a presence of maggot-drowners there are less birds..... There were hardly any birds present yesterday not even the usual group of large Gulls to sift through.
The Camp Lane pits held at least a few Duck e.g. Tufted, Teal, Gadwall, Wigeon, Shelduck and loads of Cormorants. Again a distinct lack of large Gulls and no waders seen.
A walk down to the far end yielded a smart adult Great White Egret which was a nice surprise.
A quick stop at Holt with a female Goosander on the fishing pool the only bird of note.
Year on year, to my mind, the quality of the habitat at Grimmers degrades due to multi-use which is bad news for birds. General disturbance by the Cardboard Laird means no breeding waders by the looks of it. The paddocks down the Camp Lane side are now turned over to Horsiculture. The WW pits now a fishing franchise. At over 50 mile round trip from Stourbridge it's no wonder we don't bother as frequently as we used to. I thought that once the pits had been worked for gravel/sand they would be 'restored' for locals and wildlife. How long before they are built on?
Good birding -
Laurie -
Ca40 Wigeon on the 2 new pools with nearly as many Gadwall plus a male/1w Stonechat on the right-hand one.
A very pale Buzzard on the distant fence line. I did think of possible Rough-leg but it's been at least 20 years since I have seen one so I left it as the former.
The Wagon Wheel PH is now closed for conversion to houses.
Likewise the WW pools are undergoing conversion with newly constructed fishing platforms here and there. Quite what this means for both breeding birds and wintering remains to be seen but in my experience when there is a presence of maggot-drowners there are less birds..... There were hardly any birds present yesterday not even the usual group of large Gulls to sift through.
The Camp Lane pits held at least a few Duck e.g. Tufted, Teal, Gadwall, Wigeon, Shelduck and loads of Cormorants. Again a distinct lack of large Gulls and no waders seen.
A walk down to the far end yielded a smart adult Great White Egret which was a nice surprise.
A quick stop at Holt with a female Goosander on the fishing pool the only bird of note.
Year on year, to my mind, the quality of the habitat at Grimmers degrades due to multi-use which is bad news for birds. General disturbance by the Cardboard Laird means no breeding waders by the looks of it. The paddocks down the Camp Lane side are now turned over to Horsiculture. The WW pits now a fishing franchise. At over 50 mile round trip from Stourbridge it's no wonder we don't bother as frequently as we used to. I thought that once the pits had been worked for gravel/sand they would be 'restored' for locals and wildlife. How long before they are built on?
Good birding -
Laurie -
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rollingthunder
Well-known member
