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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment (1 Viewer)

sushil_yadav

Well-known member
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Dear Group Members,

I want to share an article with you. This is about the link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues. The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Thank you,
Sushil Yadav

[ My background is given in the first letter ( letter No. 1 ) under the
topic " Correspondence with neuroscientists " on the website :
www.netshooter.com/emotion ]

Please note : The article has been written in short sentences rather than paragraph-form because it is about subjective experience / emotion/ reduction of thought.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.



A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.



FAST VISUALS /WORDS MAKE SLOW EMOTIONS EXTINCT.

SCIENTIFIC /INDUSTRIAL /FINANCIAL THINKING DESTROYS EMOTIONAL CIRCUITS.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY CANNOT FEEL PAIN / REMORSE / EMPATHY.

A FAST (LARGE) SOCIETY WILL ALWAYS BE CRUEL TO ANIMALS/ TREES/ AIR/ WATER/ LAND AND TO ITSELF.



I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory.

There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory,
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ).

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that
particular emotion.


Experiment:

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles )
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the
following:-

(1) Human suffering.
(2) Animal suffering.
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees.

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods.

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds :
(1) 125% of actual speed.
(2) Actual/real speed.
(3) 75% of actual speed.
(4) 50% of actual speed.
(5) 25% of actual speed.


Results :

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed.
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25%
of actual speed)

(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed.

(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum.
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages.

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast).
All subjects will experience some kind of emotion.

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ]


In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of
pause/ silence between words.

Please note:
(1) A THINKING MIND CANNOT INTENSIFY / SUSTAIN ANY EMOTION.
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is
particularly true for all painful emotions.

(2) In a society in which visual ( verbal ) speed and breathing- rates
are fast , pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced. It is
impossible.


PROOF.
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :-

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment
of pain the films almost become static / stationary.

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain
and slowness.

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows
down( stops/ freezes).


CHANGE IN VISUAL SPEED OVER THE YEARS

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds )
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him.

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly
changing visuals / audio.

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches
the rapidly changing visuals.

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many
visuals / text in a short span.


CHANGE IN VERBAL SPEED OVER THE YEARS

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke.
Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times.


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery.

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions
associated with slow visuals /words.



Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily
limited to :

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals )
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words )

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking :

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals )
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words )
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast )
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast )
(5) Business thinking ( fast )

(3), (4) & (5) ARE ASSOCIATED WITH NUMBERS / SYMBOLS / EQUATIONS /
GRAPHS /CIRCUITS / DIAGRAMS / MONEY / ACCOUNTING etc…

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any
emotion - not an iota of emotion.

In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct.

EMOTION IS WHAT REMAINS IN THE MIND WHEN VISUAL /VERBAL PROCESSING SLOWS DOWN (STOPS/ FREEZES )



There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others.

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion.

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists )

WRITERS
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day.
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day.
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer )

POETS
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day.
There is more emotion in poetry than in prose.
This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing.
There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry.

ACTORS
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues )

PAINTERS
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day.
They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas.


There are some important points to be noted :

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day.
They do slow visual & verbal processing.
They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day.

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with NUMBERS / SYMBOLS/ Equations / Graphs / CIRCUITS / DIAGRAMS / MONEY / ACCOUNTING etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day.

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ).



SELF-ASSESSMENT OF ( SUBJECTIVE ) INTENSITY OF EMOTION IS ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG.

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units.

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is :
A - 100units
B - 20 units

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is
:

A - 90 units
B - 18 units

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ;

A - 9
B - 9

Who is right and who is wrong ?
A is right.
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct /
actual score should be 1.8

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the
particular emotion under study.



Because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing in small(slow)agriculture based societies of the past, the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" -the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences -and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps -it was normal for them.

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ).

If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should
be 0.4

IN A FAST SOCIETY SLOW EMOTIONS BECOME EXTINCT.



IQ Vs EQ

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.
Change is an inherent feature of IQ.
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed.

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes.
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition.
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness.

IQ and EQ are contradictory.
IQ and EQ are opposites.
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional.



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



MENTAL WORK IS INJURIOUS TO THE MIND AND PLANET.

There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

People cannot stop physical activity and mental activity (simultaneously) for even 2 minutes.

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he
began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products--
a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).


The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment.


A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one.

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments).



Discussions, Debates and Arguments.

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day.

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines.
Millions of web-pages on internet every day.

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day.

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction.

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life.

There is too much discussion in modern society.
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem.


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction]

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction]


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence.


Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.


Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work.

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously.

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less]

If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion.
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion.

There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.



Change is an inherent feature of mental work.

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible.

A society that does mental work will always be restless.

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace.



AS LONG AS CITIES EXIST WE CAN NEITHER SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT NOR THE MIND.

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ].



Criminality and Abnormality.

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember -plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears]

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ]

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed.


Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times.


What could be more criminal than this.
What could be more abnormal than this.


Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal.
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.




Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world.

Big Mystery.

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars.



Make things
Buy things
Sell things

This is not the purpose of life.

Destroy Shopping Culture.

No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.




There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed.
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species.



It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species.

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space.

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline.

They call it progress.



The following is about to come true.

Nature can exist

(1) before man.
(2) after man.
(3) not with man.


Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

ENVIRONMENT CANNOT BE SAVED BY RECYCLING

THE ATTEMPT OF AN INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT BY RECYCLING IS LIKE SHOOTING SOMEONE
10,000 TIMES AND THEN TRYING TO SAVE HIM BY TAKING OUT ONE BULLET.


Time is running out for this planet.


[Please note :
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate.
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate.
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute.
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences]



Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth.


Think Positive.

Psychologists say -- Think Positive.
Politicians say – Think Positive.
Economists say – Think Positive.
Scientists say – Think Positive.
Everyone says – Think Positive.

Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up.
Think Positive.

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.
Think Positive.

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep.
Think Positive.

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds.
Think Positive.

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.
Think Positive.


Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality.


This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment.




There is an important point which the human-species needs to understand. People think they can save the Environment by doing something.

We can never save the environment by doing something.

It is overactivity that has destroyed environment in the first place.

Human-species is the only one out of millions of species that has indulged in overactivity on this planet [ And for this very reason the human speciesis going to exist on earth for the least amount of time]

And it is not Mild Overactivity – It is Excessive Overactivity – Exponential Overactivity.

We cannot save the environment by doing something.

We can only save it by doing less of what we have been doing - much less of what we have been doing.

If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%.



The Illogical Logic of Man.

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds.
They say birds are a threat to humans.

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows.
They said cows are a threat to humans.


Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future.
Such people are a threat to rest of the people.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people.

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future.
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people.


It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth.

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth.

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.


Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans.
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth.


The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race.


Please note :

If you indulge in Factory Farming – If you torture the birds – confine millions of them in prison like conditions – depriving them of Sunlight and the freedom to walk and fly – you are creating an environment for the spread of virus and disease.



Lifestyle of Mass Destruction.

Destruction is an inherent feature of Development.

Progress = Destruction of Nature.
Development = Destruction of Nature.


We can have Sustainable Lifestyle.
We cannot have Sustainable Development.

Development can never be sustainable.
Sustainability and Development cannot exist together.


Development and Sustainability are opposites.
Development and Sustainability are contradictory.

Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life.
Development is associated with never ending desires – always wanting more.


Sustainable lifestyle requires Constancy.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Sameness.
Sustainable lifestyle requires Repetition.


Development is associated with Change.
Development is associated with New.
Development is associated with Transience.


Industrial Societies can never be sustainable – When you make thousands of consumer goods you kill Nature - you kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

A Society that does mental work [city based] can never be sustainable - it will keep on making consumer goods - destroying the environment moment by moment.

Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable.


The term Sustainable Development is like the terms

Stationary Walk.
Silent Talk.
Wakeful Sleep.
Dark Sun
Gentle Torture.
Dry Rain.
Peaceful War.



There was a time when Man used to say –

I work in order to feed my family.
I work in order to put Food on the Table.


Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table.

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless.


Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table.
There is too much weight on the Table.
And the Table has begun to creak.


The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land.

The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys.

The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes.



There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food.

We need just a few things to live.
And we are making thousands of things.

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods.


Destroy Shopping Culture.

Go back to Simple Living.
Go back to putting just Food on the Table.


sushil_yadav

[ I request readers to share this article with other people ]
 
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???

It takes a lot of thinking to go back to simple living.
If you don't think you will not understand this article, hence it doesn't really make sense....


Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable.

I don't think that agriculture has been all that successful because the moment you plow a field you destroy nature. How about small scale fishing?
 
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Henry B said:
I,ll let the lads down the pub know, yeh right. (o)< .some very valid points though.
Could well be some valid points. But I can't get through that lot after a day at work.
I take it the point is we must all move out of our houses and stop driving our cars and move back into caves etc.
 
No no, not caves! We made the mistake when we came down from the trees. Go back to the trees first. De-Evolve.
 
Tero said:
No no, not caves! We made the mistake when we came down from the trees. Go back to the trees first. De-Evolve.
No. Not the trees, we'd disturb the birds.
Let's go the whole way, back to the oceans.
 
I want to thank everyone for reading the article and expressing your views. At first glance the article does look very long - but if you look at the background - it has taken me close to 20 years to write about 20 pages. So from that point of view it is not really long. I hope people take this into consideration while reading the article.

sushil_yadav
 
"Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world. "

Why-species homo has been "intelligent" for a very very long time.-but has only recently started to destroy the planet. Many animals are "intelligent"-have cetaceans, or primates destroyed the planet?

It is man's population which is destroying the planet & his lack of intelligence- despite his intellect-is the cause of the problem

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Social interaction is part of what makes us human.There is nothing inherantly bad about it.


"If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%."

Human "activity" is what feeds & clothes us-it is a function of our existance .Human population is what needs reducing.

"Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable."

Agriculture has destroyed & continues to destroy more of earth's natural environment than any other human activity.Agriculture is destroying the
planetbecause there are too many humans.


"In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years."

No- it is the growth in human population in the last 300 years which has destroyed the planet.
Global population history:-
1AD 150m
1000AD 300m
1500AD 450m
1750AD 600m
1900AD 1600m
1985AD 5000m
2006AD 6000m


"Go back to Simple Living"

Try telling that to the 2.5 billion people in China & India.How are these two countries to sustain their populations in some dignity of existence by reverting medieval technology? Try telling that to the 3 billion people living in squalor & degradation without access to clean water.

It is their very existance -and ours which is the problem. To decree that their lifestyle must not change is to ensure that they must have children-particularly sons-simply to help them survive.

I respect your view my friend & admire the thought you have put into it-but I really feel your plea to humanity should be :-

" Stop breeding"

Colin
 
Tyke,

Excellent response and broadly I agree with you but I wonder if you don't have to go back rather further than 300 years? What about the mass extinctions in New Zealand which I believe were c. 700 years ago? And were humans not also responsible for other extinctions in the Americas after first crossing the Bering Strait. There are many candidate "breakthroughs" for when humans became an "environmental problem", many of which precede post-enlightenment industrialised society. So where did it all go wrong? The harnessing of fire? The domestication of animals? The invention of agriculture?

Graham
 
bitterntwisted said:
Tyke,

Excellent response and broadly I agree with you but I wonder if you don't have to go back rather further than 300 years? What about the mass extinctions in New Zealand which I believe were c. 700 years ago? And were humans not also responsible for other extinctions in the Americas after first crossing the Bering Strait. There are many candidate "breakthroughs" for when humans became an "environmental problem", many of which precede post-enlightenment industrialised society. So where did it all go wrong? The harnessing of fire? The domestication of animals? The invention of agriculture?

Graham

Hi Graham-yes some good points.

"where did it all go wrong" is a very good & interesting question.!

Is it that-unlike any other species ( & I may be wrong about that)-our population has grown without constraint.Other species population growth is constrained by what?-I suppose :
* Niche existances which preclude geographical mobility
and/or
*Finite food resources
and/or
*Predators-or at least predator/prey balance.

....we are not constrained by any of these are we?
....and the reason is ...technology possibly?
....in which case sushil might be right-it's our intelligence?

Colin
 
There is no higher purpose behind work.

People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working.

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly.

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience]

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another.

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work.

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes.

People do not work because they want to work.
People do not work for their family.
People do not work for their nation.
People do not work for any reason.

People work because they cannot stop working.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ]

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.

Man can do the same physical work every day.
Man cannot do the same mental work every day.

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.


No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods.

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.



PlanetSave

EarthNewsWire

sushil_yadav
 
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"Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities."

Food for 6 billion people will destroy huge amounts of habitat -even if you revert to pre-industrial agriculture methods-maybe more so!

3 billion people have no access to clean water yet.Water for people who live in mega-cities requires rivers to be dammed-this destroys habitat-and causes extinctions like the Yangtze River Dolphin.

"Little" clothing may be possible in India -but not in Europe.Clothing requires man to grow his most destructive crop-cotton which consumes huge quantities of water & destroys natural wetlands.

What does "Little" shelter mean? & who do expect to live in this manner?

Your world of "simple neccessities"does not have the benign effect on the environment which you seem to attribute to it.

Perhaps if homo sapiens lived as he did 1000 years ago-and numbered as he did then-but we have added 5.5 BILLION people since then.

That is the problem.

Colin
 
Tyke said:
"Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world. "

Why-species homo has been "intelligent" for a very very long time.-but has only recently started to destroy the planet. Many animals are "intelligent"-have cetaceans, or primates destroyed the planet?

It is man's population which is destroying the planet & his lack of intelligence- despite his intellect-is the cause of the problem

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work.

Social interaction is part of what makes us human.There is nothing inherantly bad about it.


"If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%."

Human "activity" is what feeds & clothes us-it is a function of our existance .Human population is what needs reducing.

"Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable."

Agriculture has destroyed & continues to destroy more of earth's natural environment than any other human activity.Agriculture is destroying the
planetbecause there are too many humans.


"In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years."

No- it is the growth in human population in the last 300 years which has destroyed the planet.
Global population history:-
1AD 150m
1000AD 300m
1500AD 450m
1750AD 600m
1900AD 1600m
1985AD 5000m
2006AD 6000m


"Go back to Simple Living"

Try telling that to the 2.5 billion people in China & India.How are these two countries to sustain their populations in some dignity of existence by reverting medieval technology? Try telling that to the 3 billion people living in squalor & degradation without access to clean water.

It is their very existance -and ours which is the problem. To decree that their lifestyle must not change is to ensure that they must have children-particularly sons-simply to help them survive.

I respect your view my friend & admire the thought you have put into it-but I really feel your plea to humanity should be :-

" Stop breeding"

Colin

Whilst stopping breeding (and I guess you really mean reducing?) might be the answer to the issue of environmental impact there was much more than that in Sushil's post. The trouble is that we stop breeding too late in our evolution into industrialised societies. Breeding has slowed right down in the West - some countries in Europe are already in population decline and in the UK we're not far off it. I have no doubt that the same pattern will be followed in the East as they make the transition into our living habits. Eventually we will have a world full of industrialised nations who are barely, or not even, sustaining population size. It may or may not be too late to save the world but it will still be too late to save ourselves. I think Sushil is right that the Western style of life is innately linked to dissatisfaction and unhappiness and that this dissatisfaction was caused by the industrial revolution. Our work is not purposeful enough to satisfy us and so we seek meaningless alternatives, none of which satisfy us either - leading to a continuous cycle of reaching for more, being dissatisfied, reaching for more.

However, I don't think the answer is a return to the past. Surely, we ended up where we are because the imperfections of the past caused us to change and develop. And as a modern, Western human I (and I guess most of us) could no longer submit to the lack of choice offered by a simpler life.

In other words, I think I understand the problem but I have no idea what the answer is. Just that population control is only a tiny part of it.

Helen
 
Interesting post Helen.
Yes I appreciate the deep philosophical factors in Sushil's post.
It is no doubt shared by many who reflect-particularly in the run-up to a commercial "Christmas"-on the excesses of "civilised" living.

But the fact remains that most of humanity is living in conditions which deprive them of adequate food/clothing/shelter .It is futile and arrogant to preach that their "simple" lifestyle is somehow desirable , and a way of healing the planet.

It would be very interesting to see a model of human population growth in the absence of the influence of the Industrial Revolution and thereafter.

I wonder if it would be very different from today. Imagine the living space required in the absence of multi story buildings and metropolitan cities.Imagine the agricultural land required in the absence of intensive farming techniques.Imagine the land required to grow natural fibres for clothing in the absence of synthetic materials.

In my opinion human population growth has been the heart of the problem, and continues to be.

You might be interested in this -it was frightening when written-and that was 12 years ago.Note the comments about most degradation to the environment being caused by the most wealthy AND the least wealthy-the former via the waste from their overconsumption, the latter from their scouring of pristine habitats for food & shelter.

http://dieoff.org/page120.htm

This interesting as well :-

http://www.cwac.net/population/index.html
Colin
 
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"There is no higher purpose behind work."
An extremely questionable statement.

"People do not work because they want to work.
People work because they cannot stop working."
Following on from above, individuals work to survive. Do you eat? Do you drink? Do you wear clothes? Where does all of the above come from? The meat you eat does not cook itself, the crops or vegatables you eat do not pick and cook themselves. There is work involved in all facets of life.

"The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly."
Due to the fact that without reward, monetary or otherwise, we cannot buy/barter for the survival necessities in life. Then from the rewards of working, we are forced to pay our political rulers who do their best to control us. We have little or no say on how much of our share of reward they take from us. So we have to work in excess to cover the losses they take from us. Do you live in a tax free society??

"When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work."
Thank nature for a social life then!!

"When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes."
Perhaps one is not too happy with ones own life style. If not, then one has the ability to change it, only if one has the frame of mind to do so!

People do not work because they want to work.
No, because they have to work to live.

People do not work for their family.
Not unless, its Joe Bloggs and Sons. ;)

People do not work for their nation.
Must tell the forces that. And where and to whom does all my taxes go??

People do not work for any reason.
Except survival. Not really important, is it??

People work because they cannot stop working.
Not until they are 65, soon to be 68 unless they win the lottery.

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort.
It seems that this is your personal feelings which you are trying to persuade us that it is ours also. Me thinks you should take up yoga and chill out. Mind you, having seen the 60's thing with the Beatles and the yogie masters, who stated that the Beatles should give away all their money and live like them, only to find out that the yogies were then the ones with the 20 or so Rolls Royces and huge mansions with servants doing all the "work" it smacked of a scam at best.

"In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort."
May I suggest that you start with this post haste.

For most people it is a choice between physical and mental work.
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet.
And with that, the evolution of knowlege grinds to an abrupt halt.

Man can do the same physical work every day.

Man cannot do the same mental work every day.
Poppycock. How do you think man's knowlege has evolved throughout the ages?

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation.
And still does in this day and ages, depending where you are on this planet!

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ).
Ain't evolution of the species wonderful?

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago.

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities.

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them.
Nonsence. People make them due to the mindset of others believing that they need then for their existence. A bit like your beliefs, is this post is what you believe. You seem to believe in an alternate lifestyle, which the consumer society is mindset against. That is up to you, but please let us live in a world of reality. We work to live. No one will give me food, water and shelter, I have to barter for it, and in this society, that's with hard cash. That where the work comes in.

People cannot stop doing work -
Can in less than 10 years.
After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable.

If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.


No one deserves more.
Everyone deserves less.
So those with next to nothing deserves less, please qualify and quantitify??
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less.



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods.

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than
99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today.

How do you actually know. Technology may save the environment. I cannot tell the future, can you??
Ps, what's next weeks lottery numbers??

Regards

Malky
 
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