Monarch 82ED, a Perfect Ten (2 Viewers)

This is Phil,

I am a new member. Like you guys I have a Monarch ED82. I'm rather happy with it.

I guess the only disappointing aspect IMO is that, with the Nikon lenses, one cannot go beyond a 60X magnification. This is a strong limiting factor (that is one of the main reason for this thread I guess).
Thus, I am wondering which eyepieces would allow me to go beyond this level of magnification?
Henry mentioned the Baader Mark IV Hyperion Zoom. So I wonder which magnification can be achieved with this lens?
Racuuna also mentioned the possibility of using APM HDC 13mm and 5mm lenses with the monarch (post #131).
I am wondering which magnification can roughly be achieved with a 5mm APM? In term of magnification, it should go well beyond the actual Nikon lenses?!
Also, which attachment rig can be use with the APM ? Would the 'monarch astro-rig' (i.e. Baader Ultrashort T-2 / 1.25" eyepiece clamp+Baader T-2/T-2 Inverter ring T2-26 1508025+ short Nikon T-adapter) that has been suggested earlier work with the APM HDC 5mm?
If not, which adapter can be used?
Now, I can also report two small modest results using the 'Monarch astro-rig' (for a lack of a better word). I was able to get focus very easily with a Celestron 20 mm (see pictures attached) but also with a Celestron 12 mm omni plossl. These are probably basic minors lenses but I wanted to mention them just in case someone is interested.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,

Phil

PS: apology if some of the questions appear naive.

Hi Phil,

The 82mm Monarch scope has a focal length of around 505mm, so a 5mm eyepiece will produce about 101x. The Baader Hyperion Mk IV zooms from 24mm to 8mm, so its magnification range with the scope is 21x-63x.

The combination of adapters you are using now is the best that can be done at the moment. Unfortunately discovering which eyepieces will come to focus is going to require trial and error, but the more examples we know about the better predictions we can make about others. If you know a certain eyepiece works then you know any parfocal eyepiece and any eyepiece that requires less focuser in-travel will also work.

Thanks for adding two more eyepieces to the list.

Henry

Henry or anyone else,

Last naive question: When I measure the monarch scope, it is about 300 mm long (I have the angled version). How do you come up with a focal length of 505mm?

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,

Phil

Presumably it is a telephoto with a negative rear group.

Telephoto camera lenses are short for their focal length.
However, generally telephoto lenses are not as good as say a Symmetrical type without the negative rear group.
But with modern glass types and design, short lenses can be very good indeed.

The symmetrical type standard 50mm f/1.7 full frame camera lenses are low priced and very good compared to the other more expensive lenses offered.

With Maksutov mirror lenses the light path is folded and also amplified by the secondary component, so they are very short, but have a central obstruction that reduces contrast unless very small, which limits the field size.

Regards,
B.

Further to the above a simple 500mm fl telephoto lens may have a front component of 280mm fl and a negative or Barlow type rear lens of 1.8x magnification.
The magnification depends on how near to the focus of the front element the rear element is placed.

With mirror lenses, a SCT has a primary typically f/2 and a final focal ratio of f/10.

With Maksutovs the primary is typically f/2.5 and the final focal ratio of f/12 to f/16.
To provide a focal ratio of say f/10 or less the secondary has to be a different curvature to the front corrector, so is not an aluminised spot on the rear of the corrector, but a separate component.

The length of telescopes is different to the focal lengths, unless it is a simple refractor with no rear Barlow or negative element.

A simple Newtonian reflector also is a similar length to the focal length of the primary as the diagonal is a flat piece of glass.

Regards,
B.

DRodrigues said:

Some 2" astro eyepieces can be used adapting in a similar way I shown at using 2" eps on 1,25" binoviewers
Now we are waiting for the comparison of the Baader with the Nikon zoom...

Click to expand...

I haven't had a chance to directly compare the Baader MK IV zoom to either of the Nikon zooms. Back in 2019 I did compare my old Baader MKII to the standard Nikon zoom and preferred the Baader for its wider field, but even more because of its much improved lateral color correction. Since I later found the wide field Nikon zoom to have a bit more lateral color than the standard one I'm pretty sure I would prefer the Baader MK IV to either Nikon zoom for the same reason. Lateral color is really the weakest aspect of the Monarch scope's optical performance. It improves from mediocre to excellent by simply substituting the Baader zoom. I've found that the MK IV has about the same low amount of lateral color as the MK II, but curiously the colors of the fringes have changed from orange/blue to yellow/purple.

I suppose I also like having that tiny bit more magnification at the top end (63x vs 60x) since neither 60x nor 63x seems high enough to me. I would prefer a top magnification around 80-90x. Hopefully, I'll find an eyepiece in the 5-6mm range that will reach focus in the Baader Ultrashort clamp for times when the scope's full resolving power is needed.

Henry

I've found two bits of information that might be of interest to anybody thinking of adapting the Baader Hyperion Mark IV zoom or the fixed magnification Hyperion eyepieces to the Nikon Monarch ED scopes. First is the quote below from the Q&A section of the Mark IV zoom product page on the subject of the zoom eyepiece's water resistance.


"The top lens doublet as well as the zoom ring on the Mark IV and previous Hyperion Zoom models are indeed O-ring sealed, to permanently shield off water (and dust) entry when the Hyperion Zoom is exposed to sudden rainfall. while inserted into a spotter for instance.

What is not sealed in the same way is the front lens element inside the 1 1/4" nose piece during its travel up and own. We sacrificed that O-ring seal in all zoom models in order to make the Click-mechanism work effortless and to avoid that "hard feeling" of most other zooms when changing magnification. This is certainly a concession to its primary use on astronomical telescopes. Here the zoom ring must work without "resistance". On most other zooms the telescope will come off target or start to "wiggle" everytime when rotating the zoom ring actually is a real effort.

Effortless handling - is what we try to achieve with this zoom - as well as intuitive indication of the distinct magnification stops. This smoothness in operation is just one of the reasons that made this Zoom such a success among Astro-Amateurs - without most people noticing even why they have that positive feeling, compared to using other zoom eps.

Also when using the Mark IV on your spotter you will find it a side-benefit, to reach high magnification without loosing target - just because the zoom were so darn stiff to rotate.

For your application attached to spotting scopes, what remains is that you won´t have any water entry while the Hyperion Zoom is mounted onto the spotting scope. The bottom design of the zoom creates an overlapping shield, to not have water creeping into the 1 1/4" receptor.
Answer by: Baader Web Team (Admin) on May 7, 2017 4:03:00 PM"


I also found some specifications for the Baader 2" Clicklock eyepiece clamp for the T-2 system (#2956242). It appears to be short enough to allow the the fixed magnification Baader Hyperion eyepieces to be brought to focus on the Nikon scopes by using a TS Optics ultrashort Nikon T-adapter combined with the Baader T-2 / T-2 Thread Inverter (#1508025).

Hi,

thanks for the info, Henry!

As for the fixed mag Hyperion series... unlike the zoom, they are best used at f8 or above, they don't work too well on fast instruments...

Joachim

henry link said:

Hopefully, I'll find an eyepiece in the 5-6mm range that will reach focus in the Baader Ultrashort clamp for times when the scope's full resolving power is needed.

Click to expand...

There is another more practical solution solution for birding - you can use a barlow element screwed on the Baader zoom 1,25" adapter as I use - see barlow cell and how it looks on the Optolyth 100 at the end of Preferred CR-telescopes. These barlow cells are sold within several brands (even as 2.6x binoviewers GPCs), but the only "ED" version I found is the APM 2.7x that results great at high mags (the resulting increase factor is <1.6x with Baader zoom), but show curved field at lower mag... It's one of the tests I want to add to my page...
In terms of a fixed ep, as Joachim told, I wouldn't go for a Hyperion but for a Morpheus or other brand eps - see also test of 5mm astro eps

I have been experimenting with the Monarch 82ED lately. I've made one observation that maybe known to some of you, but in case, I just want to report it

It seems that the eyepieces that are fitted for EDG line will also work with the Monarch line. In fact, Nikon uses the same standard Nikon bayonet for the EDG line. Yet, compared to the monarch line, they have inverted it to insure some level of incompatibility between the two lines. That is, while EPs from the Monarch line will display the male side of the bayonet fixation to the telescope, EPs from the EDG line will display the female side. To use an EDG ep with a Monarch, just connect back to back two male Nikon T adapters using the T2 inverter ring to create a "male-male" connector. You can now plug your EDG ep into the monarch with the connector you just created.
Doing so will allow you to connect an FEP 75W Eyepiece for EDG Fieldscope into the monarch. This is better in terms of magnification than the x60 of the regular Monarch zoom piece. I did this with the FEP 75W EP and the result is a crisp image whose quality is on par (if not better) with the Monarch Wide zoom EP (30X-60X). The other advantage is that several Nikon Digiscoping systems are fitted to both lines. That is, adapters such as DSA N1 or DSA N2 will work for sure on both line of EPs. The FSA-L2 may well be adapted on the Monarch scope as well using the same trick. Maybe someone can confirm. Thanks.

Phil

Hi Phil,

thanks a lot for sharing this most useful observation!

I am quite astonished that you still come to focus with 3 adapters, but if it works for you, congratulations.
Did you try if you can get to focus at infinity (moon, planets, stars) and how much focus distance you have beyond that?

Joachim

Hi Joachim,

No, I have not tried it on the moon. So at this moment, I should be cautious. I can't affirm that this device will work for celestial objects, but I'm pretty certain it will work for birding applications (and Nikon Digiscoping). My horizon is not great here and It's bright day now, but I was able to focus on trees that are about 300 meters from the scope and on....a cloud (most 'celestial thing' I can think of given my horizon). I can see the latter distinctly and 'past focus it' if necessary.
I will try it on the moon and report to the forum.

Below, I attached a few pics of the device. The 'device' created (made of two ultrashort Nikon adapters and the Baader T2 inverter) is rather slim. In terms of light path, its thickness is probably between 2 and 3mm, not more. Note also the trick used by Nikon engineers to make the two lenses non compatible across the two scopes lines.

Regards,

Phil

Hi Phil,

moon is usually "infinite" enough for testing whether the focus is ok... unless you were right at the end of the focus range when you got the moon in focus.

Joachim

Joachim and others interested in the EDG 75W EP,

Tonight the sky was clear and the moon was there....
The answer to your earlier question (#151 ) is Yes. I can indeed focus the EDG 75W EP on the moon using the Monarch ED82. In fact, I can past focus it easily. So any other celestial object would work.
To substantiate my claim, I made a quick photo using a Nikon 1 J4 mounted on the EDG 75W eyepiece via a DSB-N1 (the eyepiece was of course attached to the monarch with the device described earlier).

Regards,

Phil

An excellent bit of information. Much appreciated!

--AP

Hi all,

a few years ago I had a 1.25" mount adapter (see the attached pic, with the 30x-24x MC) built by a turner in my city to mount my Nikon Fieldscope MC and DS fixed eyepieces on a Celestron C5 with which they work fine.

By following this interesting thread, I was wondering if eventually (or in your opinions), using the appropriate Nikon and Baader adapters, I could get to mount the old Nikon MC and DS eyepieces for Fieldscope + my adaptor on a Monarch ED 82, as if they were a Baader zoom.

Or do you think there are serious possibilities that the infinity focus is compromised or that there could be other mechanical and optical problems in such a multi adapted combination with a Monarch ED 82?

Regards,
Luca

Should work fine. If not, you have always the possibility of using the adapter available for the EDG series and than do the same as shown at post 152.
Don't know why Nikon didn't produced an adapter for using fieldscope eps on the Monarch series...

henry link said:

I just spent time with two more specimens of the Nikon Monarch 82ED Fieldscope. I also got a look at the 30-60x zoom and the 30x eyepiece with reticle.

One of the scopes was excellent, nearly as good as the first scope I reviewed. The only problem I saw in a star test was a little spherical aberration, which reduced its resolution slightly to about 1.5 arc seconds, but I would still call it a cherry.

The second scope was not so good. Its star test showed some coma, more spherical aberration and an odd bright red ring outside of focus when it was defocused by about 4-5 rings. Its resolution was down to about 1.7 arc seconds, which was just noticeable as a softening of the image at higher magnifications compared to the other scope. I wouldn't call it a real lemon, just mediocre. Most people probably wouldn't notice anything wrong without a careful direct comparison, but this scope design can do better. Two cherry scopes out of three and no real lemons so far is a very promising result.

The 30-60 zoom does have a nice wide apparent field throughout the zoom range. I didn't have time to measure it, but comparing it to eyepieces I have measured I would estimate the true AFOV at 30x is about 58º and around 73º at 60x, as expected somewhat wider than the Nikon ISO specs. Distortion appears to be moderate pincushion, so no Globe Effect to deal with. With one exception off-axis performance is very good. There is a little field curvature and astigmatism at 30x, which gradually reduces to a very low level at 60x, The weakest off-axis characteristic is lateral chromatic aberration, particularly at high magnifications. At 60x there is an area near the center about 20º wide which is mostly free of lateral color, but for high contrast targets outside of that area the color fringes come on quickly and are pretty vivid at the field edge.

The 30x reticle eyepiece is an oddity for hunters and shooters only. Its optical performance is very similar if not identical to the 30-60 zoom set at 30x, with exactly the same field width and eye relief spec as the zoom.

Click to expand...

Having looked through the Nikon eyepieces and the alternatives adapted for the scope, what would you recommend for someone with a new Nikon monarch (60ed a) scope who thinks the included 20-60x is too narrow and gets too dark at high zoom?

Aotus said:

Having looked through the Nikon eyepieces and the alternatives adapted for the scope, what would you recommend for someone with a new Nikon monarch (60ed a) scope who thinks the included 20-60x is too narrow and gets too dark at high zoom?

Click to expand...

Any of the Nikon fixed eyepieces will be quite wide compared to that zoom. I am not familiar enough w/other eyepieces to provide recommendations, but I can tell you that the problem of becoming dark at high magnification is not a problem that can be solved with a different eyepiece. That is just a matter of physics. If you want a brighter image at, e.g. 60x, you will need to get a bigger scope with a bigger objective lens.

--AP

Alexis Powell said:

Any of the Nikon fixed eyepieces will be quite wide compared to that zoom. I am not familiar enough w/other eyepieces to provide recommendations, but I can tell you that the problem of becoming dark at high magnification is not a problem that can be solved with a different eyepiece. That is just a matter of physics. If you want a brighter image at, e.g. 60x, you will need to get a bigger scope with a bigger objective lens.

--AP

Click to expand...

Yeah, about the darkening, I said that to suggest that I am not in love with the high-mag. I do like the ability to zoom, but a wide, bright image is the most important thing to me. So, if the 30w ep is the best option, then I think I’d go for it. But, a little more money and there’s the 30-60w, and if that is just as good at 30 then it’s a win win because there is the option to zoom too.