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6 January 2022 - New Leica announcement (2 Viewers)

Would like to get some serious field-time with this unit to provide a full assessment.

My initial conclusion is Leica did a fine job in achieving what they set out to do with the Geovid PRO, as it is a very advanced, multi-technology, enhanced ballistic-rangefinding optical system. That load is a lot to carry when also trying to approach or rival the pure optical performance of today’s very best 32mm binoculars.
Interested to know the model of Leica rifle scope you own and which ballistic software you will be using during your in-the-field assessment? I assume you also own a Kestrel Bluetooth Anemometer for windspeed input and not just the laser determined distance to target?

LGM
 
Thanks Canip, that's a good outcome. It will be interesting to see how long it takes Leica to correct the specs on their website.

Now all Leica needs to do is keep the Perger prism, dump the electronics, provide a more sophisticated eyepiece and a closer focus and they might have something. ;)

Henry
Not sure why any company, especially one of the big 3, should have a mistake somewhat glaring on the website.... they put tons of R&D into a product and they need to do the same for a simple website.... jim
 
Dang it! Exciting that they're making a new pair of binoculars, but like almost everyone else on here, they are not the ones I was hoping for.
 
Thanks Canip, that's a good outcome. It will be interesting to see how long it takes Leica to correct the specs on their website.

Now all Leica needs to do is keep the Perger prism, dump the electronics, provide a more sophisticated eyepiece and a closer focus and they might have something. ;)

Henry

Well, the question remains whether Leica is interested in doing that. So far, they haven‘t moved in that direction.

The patents around the Perger prism and devices using it (some of these patents mention Leica as an assignee) date back to, if I see right, between 2000 and 2015. So Leica would have had plenty of time to use these prisms in binoculars, but they have so far chosen to use them only in rangefinder binos.
The question remains why. Leica has historically experimented with numerous prism types (remember Uppendahl etc.).

As discussed elsewhere, Perger prisms are modified Porro prisms and share the advantages of those, compared e.g. to a Schmidt-Pechan: only 4 reflections, no phase coating needed, no reflective (dielectric or metal) coating needed, which means transmission is principally better and production cost is principally lower than with roof prisms.

So only Leica knows why they hesitate to use the Perger prism more broadly. One argument I heard a couple of times is that Leica’s binoculars overall tend to be more compact than their competition, and that the Perger prism doesn‘t offer any advantages in this respect over Schmidt-Pechan. But I find it hard to believe that this is the real story.

Now that a new „small“ Perger is out, let‘s see what happens in the future.

Canip
 
Had a chance for a second look at the Geovid PRO yesterday. It was still under indoor lighting conditions in a very large convention center, but I made a more concerted effort to be completely objective in my subjective impressions 😉. In hindsight, felt my initial ”quick-take” might have been skewed due to high expectations. There was a good deal of light/shadow to peer into as well as tremendous variations of color and texture around for me to attempt to pull detail from.

First, the view is subtly different than other Leica binoculars (not surprising with the Perger prism design). The G-PRO resolves very crisply, with good depth of field, and colors looked typical Leica. I really didn’t pay much attention to FOV other than it didn’t feel at all restrictive. It isn’t flat-field, but the sweet spot was sufficiently wide and maybe a smidge better than the Trinovid. The eye relief did appear quite short and I did experience some blackouts. What is immediately noticeable (to me anyway) it just isn’t quite as bright as many other Leicas - but I was mostly comparing it to bigger glasses. Overall, I found it a competent binocular, with a view I‘d likely rank somewhere between the Trinovid and UVHD+. Which is actually quite an accomplishment when building this kind of complex, multi-technology device with competing internal information displays.

On the build side - it certainly appears rugged enough for serious outdoor use. It does balance well in the hand and I found all of the controls (outside of the focuser) well positioned / easily reachable. However, I really did not like the focuser position (too far back for me) or its action (felt clunky and unrefined).

Anyway, these are just impressions from two very brief contact sessions with this device under less than ideal circumstances. Also had the additional challenge of Leica reps distracting and attempting to get me to focus on specific technology features rather than the view. Would like to get some serious field-time with this unit to provide a full assessment.

My initial conclusion is Leica did a fine job in achieving what they set out to do with the Geovid PRO, as it is a very advanced, multi-technology, enhanced ballistic-rangefinding optical system. That load is a lot to carry when also trying to approach or rival the pure optical performance of today’s very best 32mm binoculars.
Thanks for the second look. Of everything you mentioned, this line has me the most hesitant….

“ I did experience some blackouts.”

At one time I really wanted to love the Swaro EL 8x32. But blackouts killed it for me. I found my eye placement to be super critical to a clear, black out free view. In the end, they went down the road in favor of the SLC’s, which I find nearly blackout free and super user friendly.

Was eye placement pretty critical on these new Geovid Pros? And to that point, what makes one Bino more likely to have black outs than others?
 
Top-tier roof prism binoculars are so good these days that I just cannot see how Leica would break any optical boundaries by using the Perger prism more broadly. How much of a real world difference would it make?

I remember all the hype re: the NL Pure, and while it's an excellent binocular, it didn't leave everything else in the dust. Even though it appeared that way on paper.

These companies want to make $$. The majority of people (who aren't optics nerds like us) will NOT trade their alpha binocular for the next iteration, just because of an 'XYZ' increase in FOV or contrast, or other minute visual detail. It's hard to justify. Good glass is good glass, whether your binocular is 5, 10, or 20 years old. (It's taken a lot of time and $$ to reach that conclusion, but I'm glad I stuck it out - because I'm a stubborn prick. Lol)

But electronic features? The skies the limit, and it will usually result in a tangible 'difference' (even if it's not strictly necessary). It makes more financial sense to regularly improve/update range-finding binoculars v.s stand-alone binoculars.

But hell, I'd like to see a 32mm Noctivid too.
 
The hunting market is huge and I would posit that hunters are more willing to invest in high quality gear than the average birdwatcher. I say that because hunting as portrayed in social media and forums requires not only expensive firearm(s), but rangefinder, goretex gear, packs, stands, boots, gloves, etc. A full high quality 'suit' (pants, base layers, puffy, shell, gloves) can easily exceed cost of top alpha binocs. Heck, ammo (required for practice at the range etc) is around $2-3 per round right now. So a trip to sight-in a scope is easily $50-100.

Per Statista.com, in 2019:
US hunters - 15.1M
US birdwatchers - 12.9M

You can argue the stats but my guess is that Leica knows exactly what they are doing. And they had admittedly fallen behind to Swaro green in hunting circles, but their knocking it out of the ballpark with Geovid will bring Leica back into the game and give them great visibility in the hunting community, which may very well allow the next gen of conventional binos to find them an established market.
 
Was eye placement pretty critical on these new Geovid Pros? And to that point, what makes one Bino more likely to have black outs than others?
Yes, I found eye placement a bit more finicky than other Leica binoculars. I did mess with eyecups a bit and although I did not measure they did not appear to extend as far as I expected. Overall, eye relief appeared fairly tight which I assume was the cause for the blackouts.
 
Yes, I found eye placement a bit more finicky than other Leica binoculars. I did mess with eyecups a bit and although I did not measure they did not appear to extend as far as I expected. Overall, eye relief appeared fairly tight which I assume was the cause for the blackouts.
Thanks. I’ll need to see for myself before jumping in. Love the tech but need the Binos to be binos first, if that makes sense.
 
I can't see a perger porro having any advantages for birdwatching over a conventional porro prism, indeed it would lose the 3d effect at close range so I have no appetite for one, obviously this is not such an issue in the hunting market where ranges where conventional porros show 3d probably don't necessitate a range finder!

On the trinovid front, yes definitely not entry level in most ways other than ca suppression which I found to be not very good.

I think the packaging and design is quite good though especially considering all the electrics packed within it.

My suspicion would be that the next perger prism binocular from leica would be an image stabilised model which there work on the goevid line suggests could be a big step up from the current offerings.

Does anyone know the reason most if not all image stabilised binoculars are a porro of some flavour?
 
Thanks. I’ll need to see for myself before jumping in. Love the tech but need the Binos to be binos first, if that makes sense.
It does but there will always be a compromise in regard to one feature or other where something is produced with multi-tasking in mind.

Or are binos given of female assignment and therefore above such consideration?

Just asking!

LGM
 
Top-tier roof prism binoculars are so good these days that I just cannot see how Leica would break any optical boundaries by using the Perger prism more broadly. How much of a real world difference would it make?

I remember all the hype re: the NL Pure, and while it's an excellent binocular, it didn't leave everything else in the dust. Even though it appeared that way on paper.

These companies want to make $$. The majority of people (who aren't optics nerds like us) will NOT trade their alpha binocular for the next iteration, just because of an 'XYZ' increase in FOV or contrast, or other minute visual detail. It's hard to justify. Good glass is good glass, whether your binocular is 5, 10, or 20 years old. (It's taken a lot of time and $$ to reach that conclusion, but I'm glad I stuck it out - because I'm a stubborn prick. Lol)

But electronic features? The skies the limit, and it will usually result in a tangible 'difference' (even if it's not strictly necessary). It makes more financial sense to regularly improve/update range-finding binoculars v.s stand-alone binoculars.

But hell, I'd like to see a 32mm Noctivid too.
All good points NZ. Completely agree with the notion that birders don’t often trade up their Alpha binoculars (present company excepted). That is borne out by the vast number of older Alphas I see when out birding. Companies often live or die based on their ability to interpret demand and adjust to market conditions, and Leica is just responding to what they perceive will improve their overall position.

Just to inform: It isn’t just the h**ting market that craves such a device, but there also are very rapidly expanding, competitive and long-range shooting segments (non-h**ters) that the Big 3 and many other optics companies are literally tripping over one another to capture.

As many others have noted - I’d have been much happier with a 32mm Noctivid, or some other updated Leica binocular or spotting scope.
 
Top-tier roof prism binoculars are so good these days that I just cannot see how Leica would break any optical boundaries by using the Perger prism more broadly.
The Zeiss FL/HT series were popular and widely praised for the brightness of their AK prisms, despite still being roofs requiring phase coating, as Pergers do not... and marketing (which must surely be taken into account for the alpha-buying or -replacing crowd) could make the most of that, and their uniqueness. The very best of the old and new designs! Some days I find it hard to believe that SP prisms work at all...

So only Leica knows why they hesitate to use the Perger prism more broadly.
Do we know why they use it in the Geovid? Do the alpha manufacturers actually make their own SP prisms, or are they just a commodity to buy these days, and Pergers (or AK) more trouble to make and use?
 
Leica certainly make outstanding products and they are legendary. Of course, they focus their energies on those products which are of most importance to them. Binoculars are, seemingly, a fairly minor sideline to their core business - exceptionally fine cameras and lenses.

Leica Camera, as a company, have exceptional capabilities in engineering, technologies, electronics, design, optics, and manufacturing. Their recently introduced camera, the M11, dramatically shows how impressive their capabilities are in all of these areas.



Judging from their exceptional technological capabilities, it would seem very likely that their near future binoculars will increasingly incorporate electronics and digital technology.
 
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I have far too many pairs of bins as it is, but if Leica came up with an image stabilised one, I'd buy it like a shot. They could pretty well name their price.
Put it another way, not so hypothetical. Why haven't Leica made an IS binocular yet? Mmmmm.
Too costly to manufacture, limited market, high percentage of returns, too delicate for repeated rugged use. All of these I guess.

Edit: Leica SL2 with IS ( body only ) £5,600
 
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Put it another way, not so hypothetical. Why haven't Leica made an IS binocular yet? Mmmmm.
Too costly to manufacture, limited market, high percentage of returns, too delicate for repeated rugged use. All of these I guess.

Edit: Leica SL2 with IS ( body only ) £5,600
Just wait...the future of binoculars is digital.... Leica is in the lead in my thinking given their camera/binocular background. If they build it, you will come.
 
There is a big reason Leica uses the Perger prism in their newer rangefinder binoculars. It is more able to contain the electronics
without a modification to the body. Leica design has always been to have a smaller and more sleek and beautiful optic. Take a look at the Swarovski Range binocular, they have a lump that contains either the electronics or battery.
Jerry

Edit to add: the prior Leica Geovid R model was boxier to contain the electronics.
 

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