Markus Lagerqvist
Well-known member
Dec 3 Accept lump of Barlow's Lark with Dune Lark.
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Latest IOC Diary Updates (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sally Conyne
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mb1848
Well-known member
Dec 3 Accept lump of Barlow's Lark with Dune Lark.
IOC says based on Ryan & Kirwan which is Birds of the World?
Karoo Long-billed Lark - Certhilauda subcoronata - Birds of the World . ???
The inaturalist says "Barlow's Lark is lumped with Dune Lark following Donald and Alström (in preparation), who show that barlowi is essentially indistinguishable from nominate erythrochlamys, and that the taxa patae and cavei are better treated as subspecies (or perhaps even color morphs of erythrochlamys). " Is the Donald & Alstrom published yet?
IOC says based on Ryan & Kirwan which is Birds of the World?
Karoo Long-billed Lark - Certhilauda subcoronata - Birds of the World . ???
The inaturalist says "Barlow's Lark is lumped with Dune Lark following Donald and Alström (in preparation), who show that barlowi is essentially indistinguishable from nominate erythrochlamys, and that the taxa patae and cavei are better treated as subspecies (or perhaps even color morphs of erythrochlamys). " Is the Donald & Alstrom published yet?
Jacana
Will Jones
Your answer is in bold. Could be a while still until it is published
l_raty
laurent raty
Or it could as well fail to pass peer-review and never be published at all.
MJB
Well-known member
I think it's a book, Laurent.
MJB
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Per Alström and Paul Donald (or vice versa) are "currently writing a handbook to the larks of the world (to be completed in the summer of 2020)", according to here, thus, it looks like it's been somewhat delayed.
Also see here, and, if/when 'Added to Basket' you'll get the following message: "Pre-order Dispatch on 18 Apr 2024"
I guess you will simply have to wait ...
Also see here, and, if/when 'Added to Basket' you'll get the following message: "Pre-order Dispatch on 18 Apr 2024"
I guess you will simply have to wait ...
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Jacana
Will Jones
Because it's not an independent decision of the IOC, it's all part of the convergence drive. Cornell/eBird and HBW/Birdlife have had it lumped on other evidence for a while now. Given that Per is an advisor to the IOC and WGAC, I suspect that his unparalleled knowledge of Alaudidae has been instrumental in this decision.
Mysticete
Well-known member
The funny thing is that this is basically the argument NACC committee members make when rejecting a proposal to split, reasoning that is frequently derided here and elsewhere.
l_raty
laurent raty
Well, usually, these NACC members end up rejecting proposals despite they are shown an analysis that supports them, on the mere account that the analysis has not been published -- which I would not support either. Here, we have not been shown any analysis.
Then why on Earth do we need a "convergence drive" ?
I don't know on which evidence Cornell/eBird had it lumped. In the HBW/BLI Illustrated Checklist, I can read:
- Cyt-b distance is about 2%, based on 5 Dune (4 sequences by Ryan et al 1998; 1 by Alström et al 2013) and 15 Barlow's Larks (14 by Ryan et al 1998 [5 barlowi, 3 cavei, 6 patae, these all had identical haplotypes]; 1 by Alström et al 2013 [patae, the part of this seq that was homologous to the Ryan et al sequences was identical to these as well]). This strongly supports reciprocal monophyly of the two species. Although I would not regard 2% of cyt-b as pointing unambiguously towards species status, I wouldn't call this "minor" either.
OTOH, 16s rRNA distance based on Alström et al 2013 data would appear to be only 0.2%... But 16s has only been sequenced for a single Barlow's and two Dune Larks, and these data don't seem easily reconcilable with the cyt-b data.
The "minor" genetic difference in Alström et al 2013 (ref #34 in the HBW/BLI checklist) was derived from cyt-b and 16s data combined, and was driven down by the latter. - Vocal differences may be limited, but they are not non-existent (see Ryan et al 1998 -- ref #2264 in the HBW/BLI checklist).
- The statistical differences in tarsus and bill lengths reported in Ryan et al 1998 were most certainly not "driven by inclusion of C. albescens in tests". How this conclusion was reached is a complete mystery to me. Based on the mean, s.d., and n values reported in Ryan et al, Barlow's and Dune differ highly significantly in these measurements.
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Mysticete
Well-known member
Well, apparently folks behind all of the checklists decided that maintaining multiple slightly different checklists for birds was causing more confusion than benefit, and thought standardization and creation of a single new one was necessary.
DMW
Well-known member
If taxonomy was an objective and exact science, a single committee working towards a perfect end point would be desirable, but it isn't and I think the drive to a single unified list is not particularly desirable. It might well be convenient, but where avoiding confusion represents obscuring genuine and informed differences of opinion, it's unhealthy.
One just has to look at how Birdlife/HBW stirred the pot and injected new vigour into the field.
One just has to look at how Birdlife/HBW stirred the pot and injected new vigour into the field.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Herero Chat.
Markus Lagerqvist
Well-known member
Not an endemic though, also in southern Angola.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Apologies, Wiki is wrong then and I don't have any other references here.
'The Herero chat (Namibornis herero) is a species of bird in the family Muscicapidae. It is monotypic within the genus Namibornis.[1] It is endemic to the Namibian savanna woodlands.'
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
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