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-   -   Focus direction difference (https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=326923)

aix123 Tuesday 21st June 2016 20:43

Focus direction difference
 
Apologies, really not sure where to post this. Thought there might be a general binocular section, but can't see it.

Perhaps an odd question - but what the hell... my current binoculars focus clockwise to infinity and that's what I've only ever had. But a pair I'm going to get (Kowa Genesis HD 8x33) focus the other way.

I suspect I'll get used to the difference quickly - but has anyone ever had a problem with the change between bins? I suspect it's the sort of change the human mind gets used to rapidly. But thought I'd check with others. Don't want to order them and be disappointed.

I won't be swapping between my existing bins and the new ones every few minutes, if at all, so that would make getting used to the new ones even easier, I imagine.

typo Wednesday 22nd June 2016 07:05

There are members here who have very strong preferences about focus direction and find they are unable to adjust. I use models with both directions with no problems. If I switch directly from one to another it takes a few seconds to get the fingers flex readjusted but generally it goes unnoticed.

Naturally the focal direction gets more mentions by those who are fussy about it, some like me are completely indifferent but I guess most will get accustomed with time. Just check the returns policy in case of difficulties.

David

aix123 Wednesday 22nd June 2016 09:26

Thanks David. Seems my assumption was perhaps wrong - it does in fact trouble a number of people. The return policy of where I'm buying is good, so I'll give the Kowas a go.

Torview Wednesday 22nd June 2016 09:49

It bothers me a great deal annoyingly, so much so I won`t buy bins I`d like to own, Opticron bga classic and Aurora to name two, the focus direction should be universal IMO just like the three pedal order on cars.

I`m not saying it should be clockwise, just universal.

14Goudvink Wednesday 22nd June 2016 09:51

As far as I know the Kowa Genesis focusses clockwise to infinity:

http://holgermerlitz.de/8x32/test8x32.html

See the table that summarizes the findings, at the row Fokus Ubersetzung. It says '+' like the Ultravid that I know for sure focusses clockwise to infinity.

George

ceasar Wednesday 22nd June 2016 12:07

I've never had much trouble adapting to it. I catch on to the counter-clockwise movement of my Pentax 9x32 pretty quickly.

Bob

PhilR. Wednesday 22nd June 2016 14:30

What Typo said.

I just turn the focus wheel in the direction it needs to go at that moment, and don't much worry about which direction it happens to be.......

Binastro Wednesday 22nd June 2016 15:11

Cars originally had the pedals arranged randomly. Different cars were different.
With modern cars, some like certain Volvos have had problems with large brake pedals and throttle. Bad accidents have happened. This is driver fault, but has happened more than it should.
The driver has pressed the throttle harder and harder, believing it to be the brake pedal. Sometimes with near to fatal results.

Focus direction does not matter to me.

Also I switch effortlessly from upside down astro viewing to normal viewing. This includes moving the telescope, sometimes following moving objects.
But I do have problems with laterally reversed viewing.

NDhunter Wednesday 22nd June 2016 23:27

It is easy to get used to however they focus.

Hard for me to understand why this is an issue at all. ;)

If this is a problem for you, that means you need more practice with different binoculars.

Jerry

chartwell99 Thursday 23rd June 2016 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDhunter (Post 3417917)
It is easy to get used to however they focus.

Hard for me to understand why this is an issue at all. ;)

If this is a problem for you, that means you need more practice with different binoculars.

Jerry

Generally, I agree but it's harder for me when the focus direction differs from the +/- direction of the eyepiece diopter control.

PeterPS Saturday 25th June 2016 06:52

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
It is easy to get used to however they focus.

Hard for me to understand why this is an issue at all.

If this is a problem for you, that means you need more practice with different binoculars.

Jerry
Generally, I agree but it's harder for me when the focus direction differs from the +/- direction of the eyepiece diopter control.
chartwell99 is offline
Now that's a good one! I guess you are using both the focus wheel and diopter compensation ring at the same time: that should give you an IF bin.

I agree with Jerry and other posters that the focusing direction is a minor problem, but I am wondering why we do not have a single standard? Does anybody have an explanation? I thought it was "tradition" but I now doubt that: I have a Vixen Atrek 8x25 (btw, a very good compact) that focuses CW to infinity, and Vixen recently released a new version Atrek II 8x25 that focuses CCW,. Why did they change? To please everybody?

Peter

typo Saturday 25th June 2016 08:37

There have been various discussions in the past about the choice of positive or negative focussing lenses dictating a focus direction. It seemed a trivial excuse to me if focus direction was deemed important. It's really not that difficult to source left hand threads if the need is there. I'm supposing the designers must be aware of some customer preference for one direction or another or at least operational for consistancy. Perhaps the numbers of objections are just too low, or the protests not loud enough?

David

mooreorless Saturday 25th June 2016 09:02

Here is a thread about this ;)


http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=180418

Chosun Juan Saturday 25th June 2016 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by aix123 (Post 3417592)
Thanks David. Seems my assumption was perhaps wrong - it does in fact trouble a number of people. The return policy of where I'm buying is good, so I'll give the Kowas a go.

Focusing direction doesn't bother some people.
It bothers other people.
Some people Adapt.
Some people probably could adapt, but just don't want to!

As I posted in the thread Steve mentioned above, I have a distinct preference for clockwise to infinity focusers.

I don't like CCW to infinity focusers, I don't want to adapt, and I won't consider CCW to infinity focusing bins at all. If others do, that's their business - don't tell me mine.

If I had to have a guess at it, I think it has its roots in being brought up in Western Civilisation where I have been reading and writing left to right, and telling time on clockwise rotating clocks since before I can remember - certainly many many times longer than I have been using bins. :cat:

Good luck!


Chosun :gh:

Binastro Saturday 25th June 2016 13:46

Also being left or right handed?

PeterPS Sunday 26th June 2016 09:57

Quote:

Also being left or right handed?
That shouldn't matter, should it? Btw, I am right handed but am using the index finger of the left hand to turn the wheel (it feels safer to hold the bins using the right hand).

If I were to guess I would say that most people prefer CW focusers, some are indifferent / can adapt to CCW focusers, and only a minority seem to prefer CCW. If this guess is true then why so many manufacturers produce bins with CCW focusers, and some of them produce only such bins? It can hardly be a design reason, then what is it?


I like the way Phil put it in a previous post:
"I just turn the focus wheel in the direction it needs to go at that moment, and don't much worry about which direction it happens to be....... "
It's my approach too, but sometimes you KNOW that it should go towards infinity, for instance, and then you have to think for a fraction of a sec: does it run CCW or CW?

Ratal Sunday 26th June 2016 10:58

So, you use a counter clockwise to infinity bin like the Sightron Blue Sky.

Right hand index finger on the focus, rotate it towards the right hand for closer focus, away from the hand for distance. Makes absolute perfect sense.

PeterPS Sunday 26th June 2016 12:01

Quote:

So, you use a counter clockwise to infinity bin like the Sightron Blue Sky.

Right hand index finger on the focus, rotate it towards the right hand for closer focus, away from the hand for distance. Makes absolute perfect sense.
This works even if I use the left hand index finger on the focus:
"rotate it towards the right hand for closer focus, away from the hand for distance". Now, seriously, I know it's more intuitive when you use the right hand index finger but the question as to why we have two standards remains.

iveljay Sunday 26th June 2016 12:13

If you go back to manual focussing cameras, at one time they all pretty well all focussed 'counter clockwise' it made sense, from the front you turned the lens as you would a wood screw moving it into the camera and hence towards infinity focus.
Many binocular manufacturers basically copied that, so their customers who had cameras didn't have to change the way they focussed. Later Nikon broke ranks and focussed their cameras the other way. (Patent issues I believe)
This is how it was explained to me donkeys years ago and it made sense at the time.

looksharp65 Sunday 26th June 2016 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by iveljay (Post 3419364)
If you go back to manual focussing cameras, at one time they all pretty well all focussed 'counter clockwise' it made sense, from the front you turned the lens as you would a wood screw moving it into the camera and hence towards infinity focus.
Many binocular manufacturers basically copied that, so their customers who had cameras didn't have to change the way they focussed. Later Nikon broke ranks and focussed their cameras the other way. (Patent issues I believe)
This is how it was explained to me donkeys years ago and it made sense at the time.

Nikon SLR and rangefinder cameras have always focused clockwise to infinity, just like the Zeiss Contax I with its Tessar and Sonnar lenses as early as in the 30's.
There is, however, one important difference between how a MF camera lens and a binocular are focused.

The camera lens is supposed to rest in the left hand like in a cradle, and the lens is focused from below. The focus knobs of binoculars are ususally focused with the right index finger on top of the knob, operating it from above.

Some binoculars like the Meostar 8x32 (and the Zeiss Dialyt Classic 7x42?) leaves space for the thumb to assist the index finger by pinching the knob between the index finger and the thumb. But, this is an exception and differs from the way a camera lens is intended to be operated.

//L

Binastro Sunday 26th June 2016 13:50

What about the strange Nikon lens bayonet system using f/5.6 setting also for more confusion.

I also bought an Olympus non working OM4 Titanium with f/1.4 lens for next to nothing at a charity shop.
My camera shop friend looked at it, flicked a switch and it works perfectly. Some claim it is the best SLR ever.
It is the people you know, not what you know that is important.

Have you tried using a Linhof 5x4 aerial camera or even a Vinten without knowing what you are doing?

iveljay Monday 27th June 2016 08:53

I forgot about Contax, I tended to focus with that serated wheel thing anyway. For most photographers, the lenses they used were not long enough to be held in your hand as a cradle, just tried it on a Tele Elmar on an M3 - not a success but I did focus using my left hand so I support you on that.

The vast bulk of cameras people owned were fixed lens devices, an incredible number of different makes, and most were focussed by the right fore finger on top Agfa, Kodak and Voiglander producing particularly fine rangefinder cameras in the 1950/60's - Voiglander CLRs were particularly nice to use.

With longer lenses on slrs and interchangeable lensed rangefinders, I agree, my (well actually most peoples) focussing method changed, shooting and possibly winding on the right with your left follow focussing, I never actually cradled anything except folding cameras until AF turned up.

The challenge was to switch to an Exacta with the wind lever, shutter release etc on the left!

Agree with you Binastro with the OM4 Ti, one of the best cameras I ever owned, if not the best and Vinten cameras in the flesh seemed huge! I have a feeling that the f 5.6 thing with Nikons was to do with their external mechanical AI coupling for their Nikon F metering porro viewfinders. Others will know, I never owned one regretably.

Anyway there has never been standardisation, as this thread and others show humans are all different and cannot agree, which is why we have probably survived this long. So buy what works for you and have fun doing it.

Anyway I actually enjoy having bins that focus differently, have dioptre adjustment on the left eye for a change etc., but that is me.

Binastro Monday 27th June 2016 13:44

The popular Argus Brick camera has interesting focusing.
You can even change lenses, I think by uncoupling the gears. Some are Soligor lenses.
In 1959 all I could afford was the Kodak 35 RF. It took photos, which I printed myself in a cupboard under the stairs. Gnome enlarger.
That also had I think a geared focus, and people think it is a very poor camera.

Never had a Gulliver's Contax, with thorium lenses.


I had a Zunow 50mmm f/1.1 lens for Nikon rangefinder and used it for one film on a Kiev 4.
I scratched the rear bayonet. The lens was brand new. The Russian bayonet is not quite right.

Also a 180mm f/1.3 Zoomar, with Minolta fit. There were many different fittings available. It took good pictures at f/1.3.
That was fun to focus hand held.

I don't mind which way binoculars focus, but I prefer diopters on the eyepiece.


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