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-   -   AOU-NACC Proposals 2019 (https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=369855)

Peter Kovalik Tuesday 13th November 2018 09:14

AOU-NACC Proposals 2019
 
Proposals 2019-A [pdf]

2019-A-1: Split Northern Fulmar Fulmarus glacialis into two species
2019-A-2: Elevate Harlan's Hawk Buteo (jamaicensis) harlani to species status
2019-A-3: Change the English name of McCown's Longspur Rhynchophanes mccownii
2019-A-4: Elevate Amazilia saucerottei hoffmanni to species rank
2019-A-5: Add White-winged Snowfinch Montifringilla nivalis to the Appendix
2019-A-6: Add European Storm-Petrel Hydrobates pelagicus to the U.S. list
2019-A-7: Change the English name of Saltmarsh Sparrow Ammospiza caudacuta to Peterson's Sparrow
2019-A-8: Change the linear sequence of species in the genus Charadrius
2019-A-9: Discontinue use of the possessive ("apostrophe-s") in patronymic bird names
2019-A-10: Change the specific/subspecific/morphological group name of the Red-shafted Flicker from cafer to lathami
2019-A-11: Treat Resplendent Quetzal Pharomachrus mocinno as two species
2019-A-12: Remove hyphens from the English names of species currently called "Ground-Dove"
2019-A-13: Revise the linear sequence of species in the Fregatidae
2019-A-14: Revise the linear sequence of subfamilies in the Cuculidae
2019-A-15: Transfer Erckel's Francolin from Francolinus to Pternistis
2019-A-16a: Split White-winged Scoter Melanitta fusca into two species
2019-A-16b: Split White-winged Scoter Melanitta fusca into three species
2019-A-17: Add Pallas's Rosefinch Carpodacus roseus to the Main List

LeNomenclatoriste Tuesday 13th November 2018 09:47

Quote:

They included 30 of 31 species, plus three additional species probably currently in the wrong genera (they considered a fourth but are still recognizing Eudromias mornellus, which we have considered a Charadrius for decades). The remaining questions of monophyly do not enter into our checklist area (the embedded genera are Thinornis and Anarhynchus), but that of linear sequence does: ours no longer reflects the recent phylogenetic data.
The monophyly of Charadrius (lato sensu) is misleading, especially due to the lack of sampled genera such as Vanellus, Peltohyas, etc... in Dos Remedios . For now, I recognise the following Plover genera : Eudromias, Afroxyechus, Charadrius, Oxyechus, Thinornis, Zonibyx and Oreopholus (Charadriinae); Eupoda , Cirrepidesmus, Peltohyas, Erythrogonys, and Anarhynchus (Anarhynchinae) following Boyd and Barth & al. (2013)

Snapdragyn Tuesday 13th November 2018 13:47

They will take my possessive apostrophes when they take my hyphens - over my cold dead body.

Kirk Roth Wednesday 14th November 2018 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapdragyn (Post 3786235)
They will take my possessive-apostrophes when they take my hyphens - over my cold-dead body.

Fixed that for you.

3:-)

Snapdragyn Wednesday 14th November 2018 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk Roth (Post 3786581)
Fixed that for you.

3:-)

Careful, you don't want anyone's mother in law getting upset. They might take their complaint up to the sergeant at arms, or write to an editor in chief. ;)

Nutcracker Saturday 17th November 2018 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik (Post 3786170)
Proposals 2019-A [pdf]
2019-A-6: Add European Storm-Petrel Hydrobates pelagicus to the U.S. list

2019-A-9: Discontinue use of the possessive ("apostrophe-s") in patronymic bird names

On the first, surely they're supposed to follow BOU over the English names of primarily European taxa? In which case, European Storm Petrel, without that ghastly hypen.

On the second, an absurd and completely unnecessary deviation from the trend towards global standardisation of English names. Needs rejecting.

Not read the pdf yet, but splitting Fulmar seems sensible.

James Lowther Saturday 17th November 2018 20:24

They’re hardly going to have “European Storm Petrel” and “Fork-tailed Storm-Petrel” in the same list just as a sop to the Europeans.
As for the second, it does seem fairly pointless but I doubt it will pass. I guess democratisation of the proposals process means the odd wacky one gets through.
Cheers
James

njlarsen Saturday 17th November 2018 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Lowther (Post 3787653)
They’re hardly going to have “European Storm Petrel” and “Fork-tailed Storm-Petrel” in the same list just as a sop to the Europeans.
As for the second, it does seem fairly pointless but I doubt it will pass. I guess democratisation of the proposals process means the odd wacky one gets through.
Cheers
James

Strangely, there was an agreement reached some years ago that names used as part of genetic disease names must lose their apostrophe-s. So it is no longer Down's syndrome but Down syndrome ...

Niels

njlarsen Sunday 18th November 2018 00:22

Actually, I just read the text of that proposal. The arguments in favor are better than what I had expected, at least good enough to give it a serious thought even if it is different from our expectations.

Niels

Mysticete Sunday 18th November 2018 01:49

This is by far the weirdest single set of proposals in one bundle I have ever read from AOU. From a proposal to split Harlan's Hawk that includes an equally long counter-proposal not to, to renaming a bird because the collector it was honored for later was a confederate officer, to "hey lets just name something for Peterson because why not," to the let's change the species group name of something due to racist origins even though ICZN will say no. And...arggh that Possessive thing

A record of Snowfinch from Cuba (!!!), also in this proposal, seems practically reasonable.

fugl Sunday 18th November 2018 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysticete (Post 3787726)
This is by far the weirdest single set of proposals in one bundle I have ever read from AOU. From a proposal to split Harlan's Hawk that includes an equally long counter-proposal not to, to renaming a bird because the collector it was honored for later was a confederate officer (1.), to "hey lets just name something for Peterson because why not," to the let's change the species group name of something due to racist origins even though ICZN will say no.(2.). And...arggh that Possessive thing(3.)

(1.) Uneffinbelievable!
(2.) Dto
(3.) Well, why not?

Farnboro John Sunday 18th November 2018 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by njlarsen (Post 3787687)
Strangely, there was an agreement reached some years ago that names used as part of genetic disease names must lose their apostrophe-s. So it is no longer Down's syndrome but Down syndrome ...

Niels

All this proves is the detachment of scientists from (a) grammar and (b) reality. I assure you that out in the real world no-one has heard of this agreement and it is still Down's Syndrome.

John

andyadcock Sunday 18th November 2018 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Lowther (Post 3787653)
They’re hardly going to have “European Storm Petrel” and “Fork-tailed Storm-Petrel” in the same list just as a sop to the Europeans.
As for the second, it does seem fairly pointless but I doubt it will pass. I guess democratisation of the proposals process means the odd wacky one gets through.
Cheers
James

I always thought that usage of a hyphen, was dependent on whether or not the second part of the name started with an upper case e.g Storm Petrel or Gull-billed Tern......?

'Discontinue use of the possessive ("apostrophe-s") in patronymic bird names' whilst proposing a name change to 'Peterson's Sparrow'....

Farnboro John Sunday 18th November 2018 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyadcock (Post 3787807)
I always thought that usage of a hyphen, was dependent on whether or not the second part of the name started with an upper case e.g Storm Petrel or Gull-billed Tern......?

'Discontinue use of the possessive ("apostrophe-s") in patronymic bird names' whilst proposing a name change to 'Peterson's Sparrow'....

No, you're mixing up cause and effect.

Storm Petrel because the two words are separate. Gull-billed because the bill is subject to the descriptor "gull": there is a dependency. Consequently the "b" in "billed" is lower case.

Re the other proposal, remember they are independent proposals so aren't all necessarily coherent with each other. Contradictions are unsurprising - in fact given some of the suggestions I would find very little surprising....

John

Rick Wright Sunday 18th November 2018 13:32

The solution is for the AOS NACC to withdraw from the adjudication of English names, a task originally expressly excluded from the committee's duties.

http://birdaz.com/blog/2018/11/16/th...merican-birds/

fugl Sunday 18th November 2018 16:29

Returning to MacCown’s Longspur, there’s also the question of the latin name, macownii. Can’t imagine there’s much chance of that ever being changed. . ..

James Jobling Sunday 18th November 2018 17:33

And what about Attila and Bleda, renowned for their philanthropy and human rights records?

Kratter Sunday 18th November 2018 18:09

On the second, an absurd and completely unnecessary deviation from the trend towards global standardisation of English names. Needs rejecting.

.[/quote]

I am surprised at your outrage given that plants, which you frequently include in your IDs, long ago did away with those apostrophes (e.g., Douglas Fir). As do most other non-biological entities (e.g, Eiffel Tower)

Farnboro John Sunday 18th November 2018 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kratter (Post 3787990)
On the second, an absurd and completely unnecessary deviation from the trend towards global standardisation of English names. Needs rejecting.

.

I am surprised at your outrage given that plants, which you frequently include in your IDs, long ago did away with those apostrophes (e.g., Douglas Fir). As do most other non-biological entities (e.g, Eiffel Tower)[/quote]

Fingal's Cave.... ;)

John

D Halas Sunday 18th November 2018 19:12

One of the advantages of the possessive form in patronymic bird names is that it disambiguates the meaning when the person's name is also an adjective. "White Thrush" is a needlessly confusing name compared to "White's Thrush", for example. And the "Virginia Warbler" of course, has nothing to do with Virginia. (Not that geographic accuracy is widespread among warbler names, of course, but at least we shouldn't compound the issue!)

And if you need another reason to retain the apostrophes, how about the fact that Anna and Allen Hummingbird sound more like a hippie couple than actual birds.

Rick Wright Sunday 18th November 2018 19:16

nihil novum sub sole
 
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/...e/581/mode/1up

MJB Sunday 18th November 2018 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Wright (Post 3788007)

Thayer Gull? He'd be rotating at high rpm in his grave.

Surely the proposed change is trying to gull us...?;)
MJB

Rick Wright Sunday 18th November 2018 20:13

Aren't we supposed to be calling them all Iceland's gulls anyway now? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB (Post 3788030)
Thayer Gull? He'd be rotating at high rpm in his grave.

Surely the proposed change is trying to gull us...?;)
MJB


andyadcock Sunday 18th November 2018 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB (Post 3788030)
Thayer Gull? He'd be rotating at high rpm in his grave.

Surely the proposed change is trying to gull us...?;)
MJB

What is Thayering?......:-O

Snapdragyn Monday 19th November 2018 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyadcock (Post 3788070)
What is Thayering?......:-O

Hold on, I'll just check my copy of Grey Anatomy to see if it's in there. Perhaps it's an organ located near the Adam apple?


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