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Ploceidae (1 Viewer)

The main problem here remains the data of Warren et al. 2012 [pdf]. Under the assumption that "there's an Asian clade (true Ploceus) and an African clade (Textor)", you must correct the rooting of the tree shown on Fig.2 of this paper to make the "African clade", a clade--that will be sister to the Euplectes/Quelea/true Ploceus/Foudia group. This makes the topology of this "African clade":
[Ploceus sakasava, (Ploceus "cucullata", [Ploceus bicolor, Malimbus nitens])]​
Re. support: in the re-oriented part of the tree, the values that appeared next to a node in the original, apply to the node at the opposite end of the branch that lead to it. In other words, P. bicolor is sister to M. nitens with support 96/100; these are sister to P. "cuculata" with support 95/100; and this group is sister to P. sakasava with support 100/100. (All of which are very high.)
There are no published genetic data for M. malimbicus (the type species of Malimbus), but the BOLD database has a private sequence that places it sister to M. nitens in ID trees--hence I see no reason to doubt that the position of M. nitens represents the correct position of the name.
Of course, Malimbus Vieillot 1805 has precendence over Textor Temminck 1825.

If the Warren et al topology is correct, neither bicolor nor sakasava can be in Textor.
 
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The better solution, for me : split Ploceus into several genera (Saka, Icteropsis, Orthyphantes, Sitagra etc...).

Nomenclatorist, how would you arrange the Ploceus species under these genera?
Would this arrangement be intuitive or based on observed differences?

Edit: Ok, I've just been reading the family intro in HBW15. Wolters suggested major subdivisions based on a cladistics approach using shared derived characters as the informative elements.
Craig & Barker used 60 morphological and behavioural characteristics to suggest that Ploceus may not be monophyletic. Results weren't robust enough to propose new generic divisions but points to note included Malimbus being inseparable from Ploceus (sensu lato), and Madagascan and Asian Ploceus falling in different clades.
 
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Craig & Barker used 60 morphological and behavioural characteristics to suggest that Ploceus may not be monophyletic. Results weren't robust enough to propose new generic divisions but points to note included Malimbus being inseparable from Ploceus (sensu lato), and Madagascan and Asian Ploceus falling in different clades.

Reference pleeeeeeeaaaase ?
 
Wolters 1970 is [here]. The classification was based on morphology and ethology; although he wrote that he had been "always trying to [...] discriminate between synapomorphic and symplesiomorphic forms in the sense of Hennig (1950, 1957)", I am unclear that any actual cladistic analysis was done. His classification was as follows:
Pachyphantes superciliosus
Ploceella (Ploceella) hypoxantha
Ploceella (Deignaniplectes) megarhyncha
Ploceus manyar
Ploceus bengalensis
Ploceus philippinus
Nelicurvius (Saka) sakalava
Nelicurvius (Nelicurvius) nelicourvi
Sitagra (Sitagra) subpersonata
Sitagra (Sitagra) pelzelni
Sitagra (Sitagra) luteola
Sitagra (Hypositagra) intermedia
Hyphanturgus melanogaster
Hyphanturgus nigricollis
Hyphanturgus ocularis
Sitagroides alienus
Symplectes olivaceiceps
Symplectes nicolli
Symplectes bicolor
Rhinoploceus flavipes
Phormoplectes (Melanoploceus) fuscocastaneus
Phormoplectes (subgen. indet.) aureonucha
Phormoplectes (Phormoplectes) insignis
Phormoplectes (Phormoplectes) dorsomaculatus
Phormoplectes (Phormoplectes) preussi
Notiospiza angolensis
Thomasophantes sanctithomae
Anaplectes rubriceps (incl. leuconotus)
Malimbus erythrogaster
Malimbus malimbicus
Malimbus nitens
Malimbus coronatus
Malimbus racheliae
Malimbus cassini (incl. ibadanensis)
Malimbus scutatus
Malimbus rubricollis
Otyphantes (Otyphantes) baglafecht (incl. reichenowi, stuhlmanni, emini, etc.)
Otyphantes (Xanthoploceus) bertrandi
Otyphantes (Xanthoploceus) nigrimentum
Otyphantes (Xanthoploceus) bannermani
Otyphantes (Xanthoploceus) batesi
Textor (Deleplectes) aurantius
Textor (Oriolinops) xanthops
Textor (Euploceus) capensis
Textor (Euploceus) temporalis
Textor (Xanthophilus) subaureus
Textor (Xanthoplectes) bojeri
Textor (Xanthoplectes) castaneiceps
Textor (Xanthoplectes) xanthopterus
Textor (Microploceus) castanops
Textor (Microploceus) taeniopterus
Textor (Microploceus) reichardi
Textor (Microploceus) velatus
Textor (Microploceus) atrogularis
Textor (Microploceus) vitellinus
Textor (Microploceus) galbula
Textor (Hyphanthornis) dicrocephalus
Textor (Hyphanthornis) badius
Textor (Hyphanthornis) jacksoni
Textor (Hyphanthornis) melanocephalus (incl. capitalis, dimidiatus)
Textor (Hyphanthornis) grandis
Textor (Textor) cucullatus (incl. nigriceps, spilonotus)
Textor (Textor) spekei (probably incl. spekeoides)
Textor (Eremiplectes) rubriginosus (incl. trothae)
Textor (Dendrhyphantes) weynsi
Textor (Dendrhyphantes) golandi
Textor (Melanopteryx) nigerrimus (incl. castaneofuscus)
?Textor (Melanopteryx) albinucha (incl. maxwelli, holomelas; may belong elsewhere)​
Reference pleeeeeeeaaaase ?
Seconded... :smoke:
(Hint: there is no "Craig & Barker" publication in the list of references at the end of HBW15.)
 
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Wasn't made clear which Wolters reference was used but I presume "Wolters, H. E., 1954: Uber die Gattungen der Ploceinae. Annales du Musee du Congo Belge NS 4 to Zool, 1: 107-113"

I'll get back to you on the other. I have to go do something right now.
 
Laurent, I already use this conception in my notebook. ;)

"On the generic classification of the weaver birds of the Malimbus-Ploceus group " by Wolters. I know this work.
 
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Oh niiice!! Thanks Laurent :t:
I'll print myself a copy.

As you point out no "Craig & Barker". The correct references are in the chapter's bibliography and if you can be arsed cross referencing with list at the back I'm sure very illuminating.
A bit vague in the actual meat of the chapter!
 
Wow! Great Wolters paper!
It's very puzzling why he seems to have been largely ignored in Anglophone ornithological spheres.

Can you suggest any more of his work worth reading, preferably in English if possible as there's always something lost in translation
 
Wow! Great Wolters paper!
It's very puzzling why he seems to have been largely ignored in Anglophone ornithological spheres.

Can you suggest any more of his work worth reading, preferably in English if possible as there's always something lost in translation

This: On the generic classification of the weaver birds of the Malimbus-Ploceus group by Wolters
 

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