Regarding Nikon Se (1 Viewer)

Hi there,

i know there are already alot of Nikon Se threads. But the newest one deos not fit to my question so i decided to open another one. Hope thats ok.

Is it true that the SE´s are out of production? I think i heard they stopped the SE, EII and also the ED 82 scopes. Can someone confirm this? What ist the actual status?

In mind that the SE´s are out in a few weeks or month i am hardly thinking of getting one. Now i have to choose between the 8x and the 10x. Is there any optical differences between those two modells? I mean besides magnification and field of few? Is the center field resolution the same or is one of those better? I have seen in a review taht the 10x42 should be one of the best binoculars in the 10x sector. Can someone tell me a bit of his/her experiences?


Greetings

I think the 10x42 and the 8x32 are *very* close optically. Any perceived differences are IMO most likely due to small sample variations. Resolution of the 10x42 is of course a bit higher, simply because of the higher magnification and the larger objective lenses.

Hermann
who's got both ...

Tanhk you

then its a hard decission. Ordinary i always stick to the 8x32. Its just very handy and i am sure i can hold it steady. But i always wanted to compare the 8x and the 10x magnifications. I never did this until now.

What whould you say how good the SE´s are? Are they really as good as the legend says?

Odradek,
I have followed the discussion with regard to the Nikon SE and on that basis I have investigated its qualities both from a user/birder point of view as well as from the data measured of the instrument. My test report can be found on:
www.houseofoutdoor.com/testrapporte...kers_van_KITE_LEICA_MEOPTA_SWAROVSKI_EN_ZEISS

Although it is a beautiful binocular to look at: well made and very nice design, the optical results do, in my opinion, not justify the almost "holy status" this binocular receives on this forum. You can judge for yourself by comparing the data in the tables and by comparing the measured transmission spectra. Moreover, if anything happens to the binocular you can be sure of an almost unbelievable bad service, certainly in the Netherlands and Belgium. You are much better of with a Swarovski Habicht 8x30, as the data show. The only minus of that binocular is the slightly higher turning resistance of the focussing wheel because the instrument is waterproof (that is not the case for the SE's).
Gijs

I've owned six Nikon SEs (in 8x, 10x, and 12x), tried three others for a month each, and when I compared the view with well regarded roofs costing twice, three times, four times as much, I can easily see how the SE achieved its "star status" - it simply gives the best bang for the buck out there in birding binoculars.

I have no data tables or measured light transmission to support this (although the review on allbinos does), only my two eyeballs and over a decade of using SEs, but if you read the "literature" out there by actual users rather than testers, you will find that I am not alone in that opinion.

As to the 8x vs the 10x debate. I've owned both and chose to keep the 8x and sell the 10x. The 10x SE has great ergonomics, best in the series, IMO, and although some reviews put the 10x behind the 8x (binomania, Cloudy Nights), I found the 10x to be every bit as good as the 8x SE optically, albeit with less depth of field (but better perceived depth than comparable quality 10x42 roofs) and a smaller FOV (but same apparent field of view - 60*).

The resolution is a bit higher, being 10x, but in practical use, I didn't find that to be as big a factor as the size of the image - the bigger birds are addictive.

But alas, for me, the "shakes" were too much with the 10x SE. It's lightweight, which is good for carrying around your neck all day, but not good if you have shaky hands since weight tends to dampen bad vibrations. At 25 oz, the 10x SE was too lightweight for my shaky hands.

I prefer the 10x35 EII in 10x, because it has a wider FOV (7*) and I find it easier to hold steady since the weight/size ratio is better. If the 10x SE were a bit heavier, say about 28 oz., like many top roofs, it would help dampen vibrations, and I might have held on to it, because I think the image quality of the SE series is slightly better than the EII series, though they are very close and the wider FOV in the EII series makes up the difference. Being 42mm, the SE was also better as a dual-purpose bin for birding and stargazing.

If I had deeper pockets, I would have kept the 10x SE as a reference standard and perhaps used it occasionally on a tripod, but needing to sell a bin to buy a bin, I had to sell it.

All other things aside, the fact that Dennis has owned the 8x32 SE for almost a year now without selling it speaks volumes. There is no-one pickier than Dennis and no-one who is a more ardent follower of fashion, so if he holds on to a bin he once labeled "old technology," you know it deserves reverence.

Brock

Odradek said:

Hi there,



Is it true that the SE´s are out of production? I think i heard they stopped the SE, EII and also the ED 82 scopes. Can someone confirm this? What ist the actual status




Greetings

Click to expand...

I purchased my SE only 3 months ago. About a couple of weeks ago I saw stock online at Optics Planet I believe. I believe Nikon is still producing this model.

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." - Nikon SE

Even before the SE became a special order item, meaning that retailers don't keep them in stock, but place an order with Nikon when such and such a number of customers have pre-ordered them, which is apparently the way Nikon wants it, there were rumors of the SE's demise, simply because premium porros are an endangered species.

But at least Nikon is still selling the SE over here, unlike the EII, which is only sold in Europe and Asia.

When the few stores that carry the SEs run out of stock, the rumor mill starts again that the SEs are being discontinued. Some day that rumor will be true, but for now, the SE LIVES!

The only real criticism that can be leveled at the SE is its spherical aberration of the exit pupil, which can cause image blackouts. This makes eye placement critical, and you have to work a bit more with porros to achieve a perfect circle in the view unlike roofs, whose barrels are not offset. So as long as you change the IPD to keep the circle round both near and far, you should be able to minimize the blackouts.

There's also a Technique called MOLCET (named after its co-inventors, MooreOrLess and Caesar) whereby resting the binoculars against your Eyebrows and tilting them slightly upward minimizes the blackouts.

<B>

Thank you for your answers!

Maybe i give the 8x32 a try. Today i had the opportunity to test a 8x32 against a 10x42 (a Zeiss Binocular). Of course there was a difference, but not that much noticable. And i also like the bino more compact

Regarding the Swarovski Habicht. I had a pair of 8x30 a few weeks ago. To be honest, i was a bit disappointed. Not that they where really bad, but also nothing special. Maybe i had a pair with a worst sample variation?

Odradek said:

Thank you for your answers!

Maybe i give the 8x32 a try. Today i had the opportunity to test a 8x32 against a 10x42 (a Zeiss Binocular). Of course there was a difference, but not that much noticable. And i also like the bino more compact

Click to expand...

I did finally decide to see what the fuss is about and ordered my Nikon SE 8x32s from Optics Planet. Here is a current link to the Nikon USA site and I do see it quoted on the main site and still for sale via authorized dealers.

I finally broke down because today is the last hour of a 10% off Father's Day coupon Optics Planet had, so an SE for about $611 delivered. And I will be comparing it to a slightly less expensive Vortex Viper HD 8x32 (which I really like overall BTW) after I get the SE. Let us know what you decide too.

The SE is often seen as an affordable "alpha" and a way to achieve that level of view for less money, or "more bang for the buck".

I don`t feel this is the ideal path towards ownership, in fact I`m not a fan of comparing an SE to the latest and greatest, after all if you want a cracking view in an up to date 8x32 there`s the Conquest HD which surely provides outstanding B for B$.

As someone who came to an SE after treading the path of constantly upgrading modern roofs, I now feel you should approach an SE because of what it offers over and above the modern roof and not because its cheaper.

The SE offers its fans a view with greater "depth of pure reality", (my choice of words), than any roof can equal, to me even the best with all the resolution and corrected CA they now offer look a bit flat, and 2D in comparison

If you find what`s been missing in your binocular life is the very attributes a only a Porro can offer, then the SE is as good as it gets.

But buy one because you love it not because its cheaper.

Torview said:

The SE is often seen as an affordable "alpha" and a way to achieve that level of view for less money, or "more bang for the buck".

I don`t feel this is the ideal path towards ownership, in fact I`m not a fan of comparing an SE to the latest and greatest, after all if you want a cracking view in an up to date 8x32 there`s the Conquest HD which surely provides outstanding B for B$.

As someone who came to an SE after treading the path of constantly upgrading modern roofs, I now feel you should approach an SE because of what it offers over and above the modern roof and not because its cheaper.

The SE offers its fans a view with greater "depth of pure reality", (my choice of words), than any roof can equal, to me even the best with all the resolution and corrected CA they now offer look a bit flat, and 2D in comparison

If you find what`s been missing in your binocular life is the very attributes a only a Porro can offer, then the SE is as good as it gets.

But buy one because you love it not because its cheaper.

Click to expand...

Torview: We have been on the same path indeed! This is exactly why I want an SE to try. It is not to necessarily replace my existing, more versatile 8x32 roofs, but without a birding symposium (or a place where I can compare high-end binos side by side) I have decided that I need to settle for myself, once and for all, if I am "missing" anything.

If, as I've read many places, that SE's are near or equal to Alphas in terms of brightness, optical quality, etc. they would serve as a reasonable way to serve as surrogate Alphas, if you understand my meaning.

The SE that can provide that comparison for me will answer the question, "Are 2K+ Alphas worth the investment?"

If I find that the SE indeed makes it clear why 3D and optic clarity is what we all aim for in our sport optics, then I want to personally come to understand what that difference is. I am already seeing this 3D effect in my Vipers but I still have that nagging question of what else is there that the Alphas are giving us.

The SE will provide this for less investment than me shelling out 2X that cost for a Swaro/Zeiss. So if I find that, despite the expense, that the difference in investment to payback is not what I expected (I don't expect it to be proportional--law of diminishing returns), then I won't have to go farther and be happy for what it's worth and what I'm getting.

I know that my obsession for the next best, affordable, binos may indeed be answered by this experiment. We can't all afford to spend this kind of money in pursuit of optical excellence, but my quest will not end until I see if the goal is worth it.

brocknroller said:

The only real criticism that can be leveled at the SE is its spherical aberration of the exit pupil, which can cause image blackouts. This makes eye placement critical, and you have to work a bit more with porros to achieve a perfect circle in the view unlike roofs, whose barrels are not offset. So as long as you change the IPD to keep the circle round both near and far, you should be able to minimize the blackouts.

There's also a Technique called MOLCET (named after its co-inventors, MooreOrLess and Caesar) whereby resting the binoculars against your Eyebrows and tilting them slightly upward minimizes the blackouts.

<B>

Click to expand...

Hi, does this blackout problem only occur with the Nikon 10x42 SE, or can the problem happen with porro model's in general....???


Thanks
JOHNPAUL

JOHN-PAUL said:

Hi, does this blackout problem only occur with the Nikon 10x42 SE, or can the problem happen with porro model's in general....???

Click to expand...

From what I've heard it *can* occur in all models of the SE. I've got the 8x32 and the 10x42 and never had any blackouts whatsoever. Seems to be a highly individual problem.

Hermann

Update?

Annabeth2 said:

I purchased my SE only 3 months ago. About a couple of weeks ago I saw stock online at Optics Planet I believe. I believe Nikon is still producing this model.

Click to expand...

Hi Annabeth,

:h?: So what do you think of the SEs so far?

Mine are on their way to me but I would like to get your impressions.

Congrats Tantien. I´ve owned in the past Nikon SE and Nikon EII in 8x32, Swaro SV 8.5x, and currently, Swaro SV 8x32. To be honest, optically they´re all so close that it´s only nit-picking obsessives such as us who will split the hairs on these. Each one is slightly different, all are excellent. Different features will swing it different ways for different folk. (I kept the SV 8x32 because of the prevailing climate here, and because of the wider FOV, very cute ergonomics and far better customer service in Europe). Your SE 8x32, however, is a beautiful porro, as close to roof-comfort in the hand as porros get, and when I compared mine to SV 8.5x42, I was impressed by how similar they were optically...there really wasn´t any major difference, maybe slightly more finicky eye-placement with the SE´s and a little more CA round the edges, but compensation was the 3D effect. Enjoy!

Gijs van Ginkel said:

Although it is a beautiful binocular to look at: well made and very nice design, the optical results do, in my opinion, not justify the almost "holy status" this binocular receives on this forum.
Gijs

Click to expand...

Hello Gijs,

Without resort to instruments, I could never understand the cult status of the binocular. It never "worked" for me because of the blackouts, but quite a few BF members think highly of the binocular. Nikon USA may have better service than the European importer but they seem to have a bad attitude when receiving complaints or criticism.


Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :scribe:

Odradek said:

Hi there,

Is it true that the SE´s are out of production? I think i heard they stopped the SE, EII and also the ED 82 scopes. Can someone confirm this? What ist the actual status?

Greetings

Click to expand...

Based from Nikon Vision Japan official website http://www.nikon.com/products/sportoptics/index.htm those models above still in production.

Buying from Asia, the warranty is between 1 - 2 years only. In USA, you get 25 years. In Europe, around 10 years if I'm not mistaken...

Sancho said:

Congrats Tantien. I´ve owned in the past Nikon SE and Nikon EII in 8x32, Swaro SV 8.5x, and currently, Swaro SV 8x32. To be honest, optically they´re all so close that it´s only nit-picking obsessives such as us who will split the hairs on these. Each one is slightly different, all are excellent. Different features will swing it different ways for different folk. (I kept the SV 8x32 because of the prevailing climate here, and because of the wider FOV, very cute ergonomics and far better customer service in Europe). Your SE 8x32, however, is a beautiful porro, as close to roof-comfort in the hand as porros get, and when I compared mine to SV 8.5x42, I was impressed by how similar they were optically...there really wasn´t any major difference, maybe slightly more finicky eye-placement with the SE´s and a little more CA round the edges, but compensation was the 3D effect. Enjoy!

Click to expand...

Thanks Sancho! But it looks like I'll need to be waiting at least another month! Optics Planet as just told me it will be shipping in 30 days to 40 days so I will need to be more patient and will not be able to use them on my upcoming Alaska wildlife viewing trip.

JOHN-PAUL said:

Hi, does this blackout problem only occur with the Nikon 10x42 SE, or can the problem happen with porro model's in general....???


Thanks
JOHNPAUL

Click to expand...

John Paul,

All three models use the same EP, so it's not limited to one model, but I find it more of an issue with the 8x32, because it focused the closest and being 8x, I tend to use it at closer distances than the 10x SE, which I pretty much set and forget. With the 8x, I have to readjust the IPD for close, medium and infinity. However, after using the 8x SE for years, I do this automatically w/out thinking about it. People who are used to using roofs where, in most cases, you set the IPD once and that's it, might have a learning curve getting used to the SE, if they experience image blackouts.

IAs you can see from the above posts, the image blackout issue ranges from users who can't get used to it to some who never saw them, and others like me, in between, who see them only when we fail to keep the IPD adjusted so that the view forms a circle.

Even in other porros, it's best to set the IPD such that you get a perfect circle since that will give you the sharpest and brightest view.

You didn't mention that you were taking the SEs to Alaska, but it's not really cold at this time of year. It's going to be in the 60s this week in Nome.

One thing about the SEs (as well as most other porros) is the focusers get harder to turn in cold weather unlike roofs, which have internal focuses. OTOH, when the weather is hot, the focusers turn faster, because the grease is exposed in the external focusers.

Brock

Tantien said:

Hi Annabeth,

:h?: So what do you think of the SEs so far?

Mine are on their way to me but I would like to get your impressions.

Click to expand...

Going to bed in a few minutes, but will tell you quickly that it's the best optically I've ever owned. I've never owned any of the elite/alpha models though. I recently purchased a Swaro CL 8x30 which I really like too, but the SE is noticeably better optically. It's just a really very nice easy view; very sharp. I noticed early on that I could see a little more detail on farther birds and objects than I could see with the previous 8x bins I've owned. I don't have the blackout problems others experience. I really like the fit and feel and it's not too heavy. All around I really like it a lot and was well worth the price. I wish I could have got a hold of one when they were only like 400 bucks or so. But I'm glad I finally got one.
Oh yeah, and I like the focus quite a bit...it's smooth and I'm able to get the bird in focus pretty quick. I like the thin wheel too.