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-   -   The next Alpha technology - electronics will be the next frontier for alpha glass (https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=383344)

dwever Saturday 9th November 2019 17:04

The next Alpha technology - electronics will be the next frontier for alpha glass
 
Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, a push with your pinky to capture a 172 mp hyper-resolution image, and an instant read-out available across the bottom of your view telling you the sub-species and sex of the bird the on-board software just scanned, all the while your image is glassed, or viewed in such a high resolution electronic viewfinder human eyes have long lost the ability to tell the difference. And for the really high magnifications, you’re just wearing an 8 oz. pair of glasses or goggles while the glass itself is on a silent motorized tripod next to you tracking everywhere you look and transmitting wirelessly real-time breathtaking imagery to your glasses.

Because of Boomer’s reluctance to adopt new technology, Boomer’s in the labor force are tamping down the economy’s overall productivity, according to a study by Moody's Analytics.. Published 11-7-19, reported by USA Today. Arguably we evidenced this a little in a discussion about future Duovid design when the cry went out twice for no electronics in future Duovid designs. But that’s incidental and not the,point.

Electronics must be and will eventually be the next frontier for alpha glass, when there is a market and when the technology is more than novel and truly revolutionizes the experience, most will never look back. This might be a part of drawing in the next generation of birders.

Ries Saturday 9th November 2019 17:33

So I don't have to use my own eyes to observe nor my own brain to understand what I see but I'd be trusting programmed/ai tech to do all that? Jolly...

Binastro Saturday 9th November 2019 17:50

My small secondhand Canon SX730 camera already easily outresolves my Canon 18x50IS.

Probably the future binoculars will just be linked into our brains.

But what use are humans when robots rule the world?

B.

Kevin Conville Saturday 9th November 2019 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwever (Post 3917514)
Because of Boomer’s reluctance to adopt new technology, Boomer’s in the labor force are tamping down the economy’s overall productivity, according to a study by Moody's Analytics.. Published 11-7-19, reported by USA Today. Arguably we evidenced this a little in a discussion about future Duovid design when the cry went out twice for no electronics in future Duovid designs. But that’s incidental and not the,point.

Huh? How many boomers are in the workforce? 64-74 years old? 1945-1955.
It's not their world, it's subsequent generation's world. Do what you want.

If sales are highest amongst that demographic, it's because younger people just aren't as interested. The optics makers have to sell their products and will tailor their products to their market. Simple. When the folks that buy analog optics are dead, then people may very well wear video games on their face. Maybe sooner.

As far as computerized binoculars go, you are probably right. And they may do everything you mentioned, and many people will embrace them with open arms.
Just don't expect your quality of life to improve because of it.

Will we have climate controlled clothing as well so we never get hot or cold while in the great outdoors? Why not? Bird are still outdoors, right?
What about infrared so we can "see" the birds behind foliage?
What about directional high powered microphones with locaters so we can be told where to go to find these birds?
Don't forget about good old fashioned GPS with cellular communication built in so our birding friends can instantly be given coordinates.

Just imagine what a boon it will be for the "hunting" community. In addition to trail cameras with time stamping, game calling devices, scents, baiting, tree stands and blinds, etc
It'll be a "sportsman's" paradise. Man's brain makes him the ultimate predator. Ain't it great? Count your blessings you weren't put on this Earth as a deer.

dwever Saturday 9th November 2019 19:53

Well it happened in photography between the mid-1990s and now until electronics rule everything in that discipline, even the viewfinder is hyper resolved video in some of the latest cameras. Not sure anyone would say that professional or amateur imaging went backwards as a result.

I do not think it serves birding or certainly birding’s future and bird conservation to simply plant the flag of a curmudgeon on these issues that are inevitably coming upon us. Rather, we should be seeking how technology can enhance the beauty of the experience and preserve its subjects.

Technology imagined is generally not nearly as good as technology realized due to unanticipated advances. Conservation tends to be worse than imagined.

Gilmore Girl Saturday 9th November 2019 20:56

That's not a Leica (or any brand) binocular I would ever be interested in, but I'm pretty weird compared to most people. I don't embrace new personal tech gadgets. I don't have a laptop or tablet and I don't have wifi. I'm typing on an iPhone 5c and refuse to upgrade until I'm forced to. I have bare bones basic cable tv. I tried to go with just an antenna, but channels would be scrambled too often so I went back to cable. Sanford and Son is on right now. The young people at work can't believe I have basic cable and no wifi. I'm happy and relieved that my binoculars don't have any electronic component.
I don't own a camera (except in the iPhone) and like to go out with just my bino and come back with just my memories of the day.

I can't imagine how much wildlife will remain 50 years down the road unless we begin to care more now. Doesn't look like we do currently. We're over-building here in my area...it's upsetting. Recent research reveals we lost 3 billion birds in the past 50 years.

42za Saturday 9th November 2019 22:20

Yes instant gratification , sales and profits trump everything , throw it away when it doesn't work anymore.

SHEESH.

8-P :cat:

Cheers.

james holdsworth Saturday 9th November 2019 23:05

Anything that can double as a great medium power bin as well as a high mag viewer, minus the tripod, gets my vote.

Having a built in camera would be gravy. Reducing the amount of gear I'm increasingly forced to lug around is what will appeal to me.

Chosun Juan Sunday 10th November 2019 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwever (Post 3917514)
Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, a push with your pinky to capture a 172 mp hyper-resolution image, and an instant read-out available across the bottom of your view telling you the sub-species and sex of the bird the on-board software just scanned, all the while your image is glassed, or viewed in such a high resolution electronic viewfinder human eyes have long lost the ability to tell the difference. And for the really high magnifications, you’re just wearing an 8 oz. pair of glasses or goggles while the glass itself is on a silent motorized tripod next to you tracking everywhere you look and transmitting wirelessly real-time breathtaking imagery to your glasses.

Because of Boomer’s reluctance to adopt new technology, Boomer’s in the labor force are tamping down the economy’s overall productivity, according to a study by Moody's Analytics.. Published 11-7-19, reported by USA Today. Arguably we evidenced this a little in a discussion about future Duovid design when the cry went out twice for no electronics in future Duovid designs. But that’s incidental and not the,point.

Electronics must be and will eventually be the next frontier for alpha glass, when there is a market and when the technology is more than novel and truly revolutionizes the experience, most will never look back. This might be a part of drawing in the next generation of birders.

Yay ! Everyone's a winner ! :D

Nup ........ ain't gonna happen like that .....

" instant hyper accurate AF" ?¿?¿? - most photographers will be happy with that by 2026 ! (especially as the total ILC market is predicted to halve over the next few years :eek!: )

" Electronics must be ..... " .......... Why MUST they be ? :cat: ?

When the technology gets there (it's not yet - resolution, display scan rates, dynamic range, real time processing, battery life, etc), I'm sure that a certain niche in the market will emerge - and that's when the whole kaboodle diverges .......
Just as surely as the "Eloi" and the "Morlocks" there will be the analogue and the digital ......

The question is - will there be anything left to see ? :cat:

If there is, I think I will just use my eyeglass friendly (still can't bring myself to endure the burning eyeball smell of lasik surgery - ick !! :) 1lb CFRP 9x40 FLHT+ with 475ft Fov and 98% flat transmission real perforated leather clad binoculars !! :king:

Of course on the days when I'm feeling "special" I will just send my virtual presence drones with 3D uber* resolution/dynamic range/zoom magnification to relay real time 'birding' back to me as I sit in the comfort of my lounge room and watch it on my 20ft 512K uber-real TM 960HZ holographic display - replete with interactive multi-angle viewing, uber-real TM surround soundscape, instant playback/ editing, full cloud connected AI driven id and bio, and multiple platform social media connectivity so that I can stream a manicured highlights package including filtered "selfie-view" to friends, family, and followers ........ :cool:

Of course had you said 2050 then I wouldn't have had to resort to such banjo playing horse and buggy tech - I would've just downloaded the experience directly to my implanted neural interface chip from the global surveillance matrix ...... but you did say 2026 so let's keep it real here !

LOL ! :-O Actually going out into the environment ! How quaint !! :hippy:


*Glossary: uber = cannot be beat (in any schoolyard d*ck measuring competition this is the ultimate final word - the equivalent to infinity to the power of infinity +1 !!! 3:-) )





Chosun :gh:

WJC Sunday 10th November 2019 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwever (Post 3917514)
Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, a push with your pinky to capture a 172 mp hyper-resolution image, and an instant read-out available across the bottom of your view telling you the sub-species and sex of the bird the on-board software just scanned, all the while your image is glassed, or viewed in such a high resolution electronic viewfinder human eyes have long lost the ability to tell the difference. And for the really high magnifications, you’re just wearing an 8 oz. pair of glasses or goggles while the glass itself is on a silent motorized tripod next to you tracking everywhere you look and transmitting wirelessly real-time breathtaking imagery to your glasses.

Because of Boomer’s reluctance to adopt new technology, Boomer’s in the labor force are tamping down the economy’s overall productivity, according to a study by Moody's Analytics.. Published 11-7-19, reported by USA Today. Arguably we evidenced this a little in a discussion about future Duovid design when the cry went out twice for no electronics in future Duovid designs. But that’s incidental and not the,point.

Electronics must be and will eventually be the next frontier for alpha glass, when there is a market and when the technology is more than novel and truly revolutionizes the experience, most will never look back. This might be a part of drawing in the next generation of birders.

Wouldn’t it be great if the eye/brain combination of the “average” observer could come close to assimilating the newly devised wonderfulness some manufactures, importers, and retailers say they have in store for us? Sadly, too many trusting people believe everything they see in print and too many of the watchdogs over such matters don’t have the optical wherewithal to yank their chains.

Example: Amateur astronomers talk more about Bk7 prisms vs. BaK4 than do birders. Yet, while most of those arguments are based on mathematics and the facts of physics, REALITIES of the matter (at least for astronomy) leave the realm of mattering and enter the realm of myriad, and eagerly embellished, conversations.

Good advertising need not be accurate, or even meaningful. It has only to be believed.

“Auto-focus,” anyone? :cat:

Bill

dries1 Sunday 10th November 2019 00:17

It will probably be on an I-phone first. They seem to sell well.

Andy W.

John A Roberts Sunday 10th November 2019 02:15

3 Attachment(s)
Not even projecting into the future, one possible approach that could be taken now - using existing COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) technology
- would be to manufacture a digital live-image bino-viewer

In it’s most basic form, this would be a current mirrorless live-view camera with an additional high-resolution electronic viewfinder
In combination, the dual finders would provide binocular viewing (though of a single monocular image)
It could be either a fixed or interchangeable lens system (if the latter, MFT/ Micro Four Thirds for compactness?)


And a possible alternative would be to utilise existing high level camera phone technology,
with the phone inserted into a device with dual high-resolution electronic viewfinders
e.g. see the attached images of the Miggo Pictar Pro, phone adaptor (it’s a kick-starter project, see more details here: https://www.digitaltrends.com/photog...o-kickstarter/ )

Imagine the device extended further to it’s left - as held in the viewing position - with twin electronic viewfinder eyepieces mounted above the camera phone lens
(the eyepieces would be mounted high so as to not obscure the phone’s touch screen which would control most of the electronic functions)


Realistic/ Likely/ Desirable possibilities?


John

wdc Sunday 10th November 2019 03:49

A super zoom camera with built in IS basically functions as a remedial spotting scope. I use my Nikon p610 like that on a regular basis to ID birds I cannot id through regular bins at 8 or 10x. Image quality, of course, does not approach anything near what the eye sees through good glass. The primary advantage at this point is size, weight, and price. That aspect is well in hand already.

IF, image quality, whether monocular, or binocular, gets a lot closer to the glass optic/eye interface, at an affordable price, then you'll see a trend away from where we are now. The path is pretty clear, and most of the pieces of the puzzle seem to exist in one form or another, but the image quality is lagging, and I don't think anyone has connected the dots for birders. (that vast untapped economic windfall of product consumption)

Still loving the analog optical train of a regular binocular.

I would expect the spotting scope to be the first one to make the leap, as it only requires one optical path. If you look at the Swarovski setup with the eyepiece and objective ends swappable, all they have to do is make a digital end compatible with an existing objective... Add IS, and that is the digital future of spotting scopes. Binoculars will take longer.

There exist already single objective, stereo imaging systems for cameras, developed by more than one manufacturer.

-Bill

Alexis Powell Sunday 10th November 2019 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwever (Post 3917570)
Well it happened in photography between the mid-1990s and now until electronics rule everything in that discipline, even the viewfinder is hyper resolved video in some of the latest cameras. Not sure anyone would say that professional or amateur imaging went backwards as a result...

Well, not quite "everything". Among artsy photography enthusiasts (a small but reliable percentage of the market), and some retro-oriented young people, it is well known that the emotional experience/enjoyment of photography, and the feeling of the creative process is different (and to many people more exciting and fulfilling, perhaps even more convenient) when using film. As a consequence, after crashing out of the mass market, film is still widely available, with some new types still being introduced. Some types that ceased production are now back. Perhaps 2017-2018 was the height of this fad, but interest in film still remains. When traveling in Europe, I see quite a few young artsy tourists carrying film cameras.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ographic_films

For me, identifying birds in still/video playback is about as fulfilling as adding a "lifer" based on a zoo sighting.

--AP

42za Sunday 10th November 2019 06:49

Hello All,

I am still using my Nikon FM2n Camera on a regular basis , getting very satisfying results , fully comparable to digital pictures.

For those of you who do not know the Nikon FM2n is a FULLY MECHANICAL 35 millimetre film Camera that is NOT made out of plastic , it only uses a battery to drive the built in exposure meter , the camera works perfectly well without this battery.

Show me any modern instrments that will last as long as this one has , and still work.

https://i.postimg.cc/GhcRkMyw/IMG-3262.jpg

Cheers.

Kevin Conville Sunday 10th November 2019 07:09

On a related note. I never got the guys at Mt Pinos (star party) who sit in their trailers and control with their laptops to "view" through their telescopes. Granted, they're mostly doing imaging, but the disconnect reduces the experience IMO.

Besides the live view aspect, the camaraderie and social component is lost. It can get cold though.

And much like fieldcraft used for birding, I admire the guys who know how to navigate the night sky without a computer. And yeah, that was me as well.

John Cantelo Sunday 10th November 2019 15:42

Embracing my inner Luddite, I seriously wonder if this is a direction in which many birders will want to go. A large part of the fun in birding is learning how to identify what you're looking at and becoming more proficient. The more complex the instrument the more likely it is to go wrong. Naturally, it'll be just when you latch on to that 'mega' that the battery will go flat or some other gremlin spoil your fun. If you can tick an electronic image generated a metre away then why not a dozen, a hundred, two hundred, a thousand or, indeed, from the comfort of your favourite armchair if you have a willing porter do the legwork?

Simon Wates Sunday 10th November 2019 15:51

With you on that John.

Maybe one day we can have a DNA scanning device giving GPS and live location video everywhere. Just type in the desired species and up it pops - no need to get off our arses and participate in the natural world at all :eek!:

I want to stay in the mud and brambles ;)

Foss Sunday 10th November 2019 16:00

I'm a boomer, not actively "tamping down the economy," but do drive my car around town at exasperatingly slow speeds.
(With my Leica Trinovid 8x32 HDs in the glove box, to stay on topic)

Rotherbirder Sunday 10th November 2019 23:03

One vital function that's been overlooked is the button which sends a 'gloat-a-gram' to all your mates when you grip them off! Competitive birding seems to be the order of the day these days!

RB

42za Monday 11th November 2019 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotherbirder (Post 3917942)
One vital function that's been overlooked is the button which sends a 'gloat-a-gram' to all your mates when you grip them off! Competitive birding seems to be the order of the day these days!

RB


o:D o:D o:D B (::t: :t: :t:

Gijs van Ginkel Monday 11th November 2019 10:15

Yesterday I visited a fair of historical photographic instruments and binoculars and telescopes.
I found a 6x20 Zeiss porro from 1900 in perfect condition: beautiful instrument: worked perfectly well. Images nice and clean. In 120 years we gained a lot in optical performance that is obvious eg due to improved optical glass and the application of coatings.
In our country there is a complete uprising of farmers, builders, traffic users etc. because of the coming restrictions to farming, building and traffic because of all environmental problems. We as human beings succeeded to destroy a lot of our earth resources, polluted our oceans, destroyed forests etc. and exploited humans for the delving of rare earth metals to construct new electronic equipment a lot of which is not needed and after using it for a short time it is thrown away so one can buy another electronic toy. In that light this discussion is kind of special, since we really do not need electronic supported binoculars for civilian use in my opinion.
Gijs van Ginkel

Rotherbirder Monday 11th November 2019 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel (Post 3918021)
Yesterday I visited a fair of historical photographic instruments and binoculars and telescopes.
I found a 6x20 Zeiss porro from 1900 in perfect condition: beautiful instrument: worked perfectly well. Images nice and clean. In 120 years we gained a lot in optical performance that is obvious eg due to improved optical glass and the application of coatings.
In our country there is a complete uprising of farmers, builders, traffic users etc. because of the coming restrictions to farming, building and traffic because of all environmental problems. We as human beings succeeded to destroy a lot of our earth resources, polluted our oceans, destroyed forests etc. and exploited humans for the delving of rare earth metals to construct new electronic equipment a lot of which is not needed and after using it for a short time it is thrown away so one can buy another electronic toy. In that light this discussion is kind of special, since we really do not need electronic supported binoculars for civilian use in my opinion.
Gijs van Ginkel

Hear, hear Gijs - well said! Now stand by for the backlash!!

RB

Binastro Monday 11th November 2019 11:26

No backlash from me, despite my being a self confessed polluter.

Unless we bring our aspirations way down and stop making billions, if not trillions of LEDS etc. humans are lost.
But the truth is that we are not going to change our ways.

Change will come when our Earth fights back.

B.

Sancho Monday 11th November 2019 21:57

Me Ugg. Me Stone Age. Me use binoculars to look at faraway stuff. Me happy.


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