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-   -   Yellowstone Wolves. (https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=385995)

wilberfloss Sunday 26th January 2020 20:23

Yellowstone Wolves.
 
A rewilding triumph: wolves help to reverse Yellowstone degradation:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...th-anniversary

Lisa W Monday 27th January 2020 01:37

We saw a TV show on NatGeo about this last week. It was interesting and exciting news.

Chosun Juan Monday 27th January 2020 08:49

Are there documented studies on the effects of the wolves reintroduction and expansion on cougars? I saw a documentary where their numbers were in decline (can't remember the area) ....





Chosun :gh:

wilberfloss Monday 27th January 2020 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chosun Juan (Post 3952619)
Are there documented studies on the effects of the wolves reintroduction and expansion on cougars? I saw a documentary where their numbers were in decline (can't remember the area) ....







Chosun :gh:

I'm not aware of any, Chosun. Ongoing, however, is the Yellowstone Cougar Project:

https://www.yellowstone.org/cougar-project/

Chosun Juan Monday 27th January 2020 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilberfloss (Post 3952623)
I'm not aware of any, Chosun. Ongoing, however, is the Yellowstone Cougar Project:

https://www.yellowstone.org/cougar-project/

Thanks for those links - such beautiful creatures - but numbers are not increasing and seem under massive pressure ..... I can't believe they are still hunted. People are so stupid.

I seem to recall that the doco I watched had cougars with radio collars on - so perhaps that earlier study - they were in a snow covered environment. They had designations such as F3, F4 etc. Their survival rates then were below replacement rates. I seem to recall that the successful breeding female was killed (by a male cougar? or wolves? - I can't remember). They were constantly driven off their kills, and I think just about all the cubs died within the first year.




Chosun :gh:

Mysticete Thursday 30th January 2020 00:47

Cougars seem to be doing well, and are (slowly) expanding their range eastward...a few males have wandered as far as Illinois. Been an increase in sightings in Wisconsin. No breeding population but they are definitely present in the state. There have been increases in human-cougar conflicts in increasingly urban areas such as southern California and Colorado, but the fact they can persist at all in those areas is a testament to their hardiness.

I haven't heard any suggestion that cougars and wolves compete. Both species almost completely overlap in range and are very different in ecology. Certainly there is no shortage of prey in most areas.

If you want to worry about wild cats in the US, worry about the Ocelot: the proposed border wall has a good chance of eradicating the final US populations via habitat destruction and preventing movement between populations.

Lisa W Thursday 30th January 2020 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysticete (Post 3953920)
. . .
If you want to worry about wild cats in the US, worry about the Ocelot: the proposed border wall has a good chance of eradicating the final US populations via habitat destruction and preventing movement between populations.

The wall is asinine. It sure wont help the Ocelot or the jaguars that occasionally cross from Mexico into the Southern Arizona mountains.

Chosun Juan Thursday 30th January 2020 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysticete (Post 3953920)
I haven't heard any suggestion that cougars and wolves compete. Both species almost completely overlap in range and are very different in ecology....

These articles seem to suggest that wolves are dominant over cougars and force them into different ecological niches and halt expansion. They also affect infant mortality and kill possession.

http://www.timberwolfinformation.org...ountain-lions/

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/...mountain-lion/

I don't know for sure if that is way things have evolved - mama cougar has to kill one prey animal for the kids, one for her, and yet another (or more) for the wolves ...... that seems a hella hard way to live your life ......... :eek!: :cat: :-C

And then you have H**Ting pressure on top of that. Seems crazy. This can drastically affect breeding success if for instance a mother is shot before the cubs can fully fend for themselves.
"Mountain lions are heavily regulated through hunting to reduce conflicts with livestock and people, which raises an important question: Should we reduce human hunting where dominant competitors like wolves and bears make mountain lion lives more difficult, or, at minimum, reduce hunting where dominant competitors are expanding their range into areas where mountain lions were the top carnivore?"

Does the expansion of wolves force cougars into more human-predator conflict ..... ?

It would be very interesting to see current numbers - and any long term genetic effects if numbers are not building .....


The wall of course is stoopid - American Jaguars and Ocelots are surely worth something in icon value ?





Chosun :gh:

Mysticete Thursday 30th January 2020 15:13

Keep in mind though that in the lower 48, the area of overlap between wolves and cougars is pretty minuscule. And yeah, doesn't surprise me wolves are dominant. There are plenty of examples of larger predators bossing around smaller ones. Leopards and cheetahs deal with this all the time. Hell, I have heard of grizzlies driving off wolves from kills, so what comes around goes around. I suspect wolves have zero impact on mountain lions from a conservation standpoint, although they might very well change the behavior should wolf expansion continue.

Chosun Juan Thursday 30th January 2020 17:15

F@|<% H**Ters !!!
 
It seems there is one 'predator' that has a choice in what it does ....
If this situation (complete lack of facts on real numbers, and trends in the face of many faceted pressures), and these figures are anywhere near accurate - then this is absolute madness !
https://mountainlion.org/us/-us-population.php
https://mountainlion.org/portalthreats.php




Chosun :gh:

Elkhornsun Saturday 1st February 2020 17:54

The problem with mountain lions is that they need a large area with land bridges to be able to mate and urbanization has created many islands with stranded animals who are killed trying to cross highways. Coyotes and wolves seem better able to deal with human encrouchment.


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