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  1. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    more pics from A orinus http://www.bcst.or.th/eng/news/n12.html
  2. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    There are some details, which disturb me in your proposal: e.g. the colour of underparts and legs, the length of tertials.
  3. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    which one ?
  4. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I admit that this case is very difficult, because the position of bird is not optimal. Also the fact that the complete postnuptial moult of A s brunnescens takes place from September to November, causes difficulties to id bird. So perhaps also the age of the bird is also difficult to estimate...
  5. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    First of all, original bird is 1cy bird, thus it's still rather fresh plumage in October. The head structure seems to vary in these juvenile birds, especially supercilium (mostly in the front of the eye). Also the open bill in the original case possibly bluff us to believe that the bill is...
  6. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I think that the plumage of follow Oriental Reed Warbler in the links reminds a lot to original case: http://lamma.hk/Images_2007/Oriental_Reed_Warbler_-_Guy_12563.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/cywong/IMG_2131.jpg
  7. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I don't see any remarkable differences in general impression between your mentioned brunnescens and stentoreus. I wonder your answer because you said so unfailing way to know several reasons, that you think that it may not be a large acro.... So does the any other features which have not...
  8. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I did not claim that the China bird is ssp. stentoreus. But because we have not available any photos of brunnescens, I used pics of stentoreus to show that even a large acro can look very similar as a small Acro in certain views. And I suppose strongly that these subspecies have many...
  9. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Head shape varies a lot at least in stentoreus; one are quite similar as the shape of small Acro head and other like in large Acro... Also some stentoreus seems to be a relatively small head compared to the body size (this can due partly on view angles in some cases). The lenght of bill: see my...
  10. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Thanx Gerd, ..... The bill can be just so much longer that it can match also to a Large Acro. Namely that Grasshopper cover up the tip of bill.
  11. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    yep, I noticed that Jane, but I have not heard any serious candidate from small Acro group... and I'm still curious to hear Tim's answer to my question... Bird taxa of the WP15 tell us follow details about Oriental and Clamorous Reed Warbler: Oriental Reed Warbler Acrocephalus orientalis...
  12. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Ok, you are right, but do you know, does there published something about the id of these ssp in some bird magazine? Those my mentioned Oriental pics were taken in Singapore. Unfortuately I don't know today's taxonomy situation, because it change all the time, as you maybe already know,... So...
  13. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I just saw two pics from Oriental RW and indeed, Juv Oriental has clearly pale golden rufous above (as Svensson says). If the general colour of upperparts match then better to Clamorous (being bright rusty ochre, especially on underparts), why HBW did not mention such fringing on juv. Clamorous...
  14. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I have tried to summarize the details of the bird based on one picture and some of things are said possibly earlier in the former posts. Sorry fellows, if this looks so long ! ;) This is not some perfect or a final list on this case, but I have tried to write today's impression from this bird to...
  15. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Sorry, my careless read...(...thought only category Bird identification ;-) )
  16. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Even we can't id this bird on this pic, it's still interesting to discuss about the case without pressure to get some one answer to the question...
  17. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    yep, using pictures on the internet is quite problematic, because birds on those pics are not always identified right. good example on that is that China bird pages...
  18. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    When I have seen photos on these "Eastern" species, I have to admit that this bird does neither match so well to Oriental Reed Wardler. Really difficult case.... Few Oriental RW http://www.wwfchina.org/birdgallery/bpic/11597220511.jpg http://www.wwfchina.org/birdgallery/bpic/11523617995.jpg...
  19. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    Possibly so... because pic is taken in october, what is the age of this bird, 1cy or older? Svensson says that orientalis's tail feathers prominently tipped whitish in fresh plumage. Juvenile is pale golden rufous above with tendency to have faint pale feather-tips, and wing feathers and tail...
  20. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    The original photo is taken possibly in cloudy weather, so the some grey tones may disappear, which usually is visible in the photos. So the bird can show more brownish in this pic than other compared pics ???
  21. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    For the comparision: Oriental Reed Warbler..... http://sjl.csie.chu.edu.tw/phpBB2/files/060127_uy5v0610_682.jpg http://sjl.csie.chu.edu.tw/phpBB2/files/060101_uy5v0243_295.jpg
  22. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    The size is quite relative feature in some cases, because the biggest small Acro has almost same size as smallest Large Acro (at least for the lenght of wing). But the view angle is very difficult....and very seldom we see pics in fresh plumage birds...
  23. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    E.g. the length of supercilium does not fit to Paddyfied very well. http://www.virtual-bird.com/birds/acragr002he.jpg http://www.skof.se/fbo/news/bilder/Acragr5224_520x347.jpg http://cyberbirding.uib.no/photo/a_agricola_01.php http://www.merenkurkunlty.net/pics/asciagr070687ons2.jpg...
  24. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    I don't understand, what is your purpose in your question???? :h?: Both are Acro ? ;)
  25. hannu

    Clamorous Reed Warbler or Oriental Reed Warbler?

    How about that secondary panel in the wing ? Does it only clear in fresh plumage?
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