Latest IOC Diary Updates (4 Viewers)

Snapdragyn · Jun 17, 2020

Mysticete said:
Also I admit I might be slightly warming up to the idea of simplifying the Scrub-Jay names. Although I would agree that Santa Cruz Jay makes more sense than Island Jay

My only issue w/ that one is that there's a city of the same name in CA, which is the place most California residents will probably think the name refers to. Although a bit long, I think Santa Cruz Island Jay would remove this potential confusion.

Mysticete · Jun 17, 2020

True...despite actually attending a wedding there, I forgot that city existed!

Larry Sweetland · Jun 17, 2020

Looking at the current draft of version 10.2 species updates, I see the Subalpine Warbler split (mentioned as accepted on on May 6th) still isn't included.:smoke:

Paul Clapham · Jun 18, 2020

andyadcock said:
June 16 Post PS of Haida Gwaii Saw-whet Owl from Northern Saw-whet Owl (NACC 2020-B-8).

Hopefully the IOC list would take this opportunity to change all instances of "Queen Charlotte Is." in their range descriptions to "Haida Gwaii" -- the name change has been official for 10 years now. Even if the split is declined.

awiner · Jun 18, 2020

Paul Clapham said:
Hopefully the IOC list would take this opportunity to change all instances of "Queen Charlotte Is." in their range descriptions to "Haida Gwaii" -- the name change has been official for 10 years now. Even if the split is declined.

If you have feedback, you should just email them -[email protected] - it's a lot more likely to help than posting here and hoping.

Paul Clapham · Jun 18, 2020

I did that a year and a half ago.

opisska · Jun 18, 2020

Paul Clapham said:
Hopefully the IOC list would take this opportunity to change all instances of "Queen Charlotte Is." in their range descriptions to "Haida Gwaii" -- the name change has been official for 10 years now. Even if the split is declined.

What a fascinating island though! Never heard of it, now I don't understand how I kept overlooking it on the map, it's so big. If it gets its own Owl species, then it looks like a brilliant destination (if we can ever travel, that is).

DDonsker · Jun 19, 2020

Paul Clapham said:
Hopefully the IOC list would take this opportunity to change all instances of "Queen Charlotte Is." in their range descriptions to "Haida Gwaii" -- the name change has been official for 10 years now. Even if the split is declined.

Done today. Will show up in 10.2. Thanks!

Nutcracker · Jun 19, 2020

DDonsker said:
Done today. Will show up in 10.2. Thanks!

Any chance of some action on these too please?

Nutcracker said:
Talking of eggs laid long ago, when are Common Gull and Mew Gull going to be split? The current comment on the IOC page is long out of date, as nominate canus has been analysed; the break is between brachyrhynchus and the rest (e.g. Sternkopf 2011, Adriaens & Gibbins 2016).

Also with the recent split of Cassia Crossbill, the crossbills need further splitting; American Red Crossbills (Loxia [curvirostra] minor et al.) are more closely related to Cassia Crossbill than they are to Eurasian Common Crossbills (Loxia curvirostra sensu stricto, including other Eurasian subspp.), while conversely, European Common Crossbills are more closely related to Parrot Crossbill, than they are to American Red Crossbills.

Ian Lewis · Jun 19, 2020

Nutcracker said:
Any chance of some action on these too please?

And don't forget the difference in plumage and vocalisation between Two-barred and White-winged Crossbills.

Will Eastern and Western Willets ever be revisited or will they remain lumped for the foreseeable future?

Ian

Nutcracker · Jun 19, 2020

Ian Lewis said:
And don't forget the difference in plumage and vocalisation between Two-barred and White-winged Crossbills.

Yes - they're as distinct from each other, as Common and Red are from each other. Additionally (and more importantly), White-winged is genetically closer to Hispaniolan, than it is to Two-barred :t:

Ian Lewis said:
Will Eastern and Western Willets ever be revisited or will they remain lumped for the foreseeable future?

I suspect not; seem to remember the genetic differences were pretty small. But then again, they used to say that about Whimbrels, until some further research found new distinctions missed by earlier research. So it's a matter of wait for someone to do some more research.

Mysticete · Jun 19, 2020

Ian Lewis said:
And don't forget the difference in plumage and vocalisation between Two-barred and White-winged Crossbills.

Will Eastern and Western Willets ever be revisited or will they remain lumped for the foreseeable future?

Ian

The Willets will require another NACC proposal, and one is not likely to be produced until there is another study with more evidence that can be contributed. It seems like a no brainer split and was one I was surprised wasn't accepted.

DDonsker · Jun 20, 2020

Ian Lewis said:
And don't forget the difference in plumage and vocalisation between Two-barred and White-winged Crossbills.

Will Eastern and Western Willets ever be revisited or will they remain lumped for the foreseeable future?

Ian

The gulls and both crossbills are all excellent candidates for splitting. The willets are still ripe for a split and they nearly made the grade last time their status was voted upon by the NACC, but it will require new information in order for a new proposal to be resubmitted to that committee. It's unlikely that the IOC World Bird List will get too far ahead of the NACC in regards to these four taxa, at least in the near future.

But the NACC is actively looking for well written, well documented proposals or suggestions for proposals. Many participants on Bird Forum have excellent credentials and a base of knowledge that would enable them to do so. I'd urge any of you to give it a whirl if you are so inclined.

Here are links to to process and the necessary contact information.
https://americanornithology.org/nacc/
https://americanornithology.org/nacc/guidelines-for-submitting-a-proposal/

Nutcracker · Jun 20, 2020

DDonsker said:
It's unlikely that the IOC World Bird List will get too far ahead of the NACC in regards to these four taxa, at least in the near future.

That's a rather curious way round? Surely the lead should come from the top (IOC), not from lower down (NACC / BOU / SACC / etc.)?

James Lowther · Jun 20, 2020

Nutcracker said:
That's a rather curious way round? Surely the lead should come from the top (IOC), not from lower down (NACC / BOU / SACC / etc.)?

Not much point in the NACC and SACC under your model. BOU no longer tackles taxonomy.
James

Nutcracker · Jun 20, 2020

James Lowther said:
Not much point in the NACC and SACC under your model. BOU no longer tackles taxonomy.
James

Exactly! NACC and SACC should really be doing same as BOU, so as to make taxonomy more consistent globally, rather than pursuing their own agendas and causing conflict. NACC and SACC would of course (as BOU) still be mandated with acceptance/rejection of new vagrant species within their regions.

Andy Adcock · Jun 20, 2020

Nutcracker said:
Exactly! NACC and SACC should really be doing same as BOU, so as to make taxonomy more consistent globally, rather than pursuing their own agendas and causing conflict.

This I agree with!

James Lowther · Jun 20, 2020

NACC and SACC are classification committees. So you are saying effectively that they should disband. You may wish for that to happen but it’s not your decision. So as long as these regional committees exist it is correct for IOC to defer to them given their significant concentration of relevant expertise.
James

Nutcracker · Jun 20, 2020

James Lowther said:
NACC and SACC are classification committees. So you are saying effectively that they should disband. You may wish for that to happen but it’s not your decision. So as long as these regional committees exist it is correct for IOC to defer to them given their significant concentration of relevant expertise.
James

No; they should be much the same as BOU, which of course didn't disband. And no, IOC should not be a puppet to local pressure groups whose agendas may be contrary to the global standard.

Mysticete · Jun 20, 2020

yeah no....regional authorities should have authority over the English names of the birds they cover within there territory.

I am surprised some of you are even suggesting otherwise, given how much you complain and moan about every attempt to change a European common name by global checklist.

Unless this is really just Anti-American bias rearing its head

ALSO...FYI, the ABA and many new world birders do not follow IOC, but follow Clements for global checklist purposes. If they were going to give up taxonomic authority, it would be to that checklist, not to IOC. So any way you look at it, you are not going to get your wish.

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