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AGW and rising sea levels (6 Viewers)

So, we're down to "magic" now? So you're the anti-Purple Heron?

Chosun, I have found your posts very fascinating, and even enjoy the pseudo-religious leanings (as I lean that way myself), but this really changes the conversation to a degree that the conversation itself can't be had.

Science has it's issues, and good science freely admits it doesn't know everything, but without the science, such as it is, we couldn't even all have a common ground to speak from; each being entrenched in our own psyche.

As for the comment about "boutique agriculture," it really is. I agree "doing it in a way that is less harmful to the Earth" is a good thing, it has been pretty well proven it would take alot more land-per-human to do it correctly; heck even intuitively that's easy to see.

An example, watched an interesting video that walked through whether "organic" vs. "non-organic" farming methods were better than the other. Came out a tiny, tiny net in favor of organic, but overall is a net draw. The organic farming is better for the planet in theory, but production of it to meet demand has meant companies are producing it in ways that cause just as much harm in other ways. Was very sobering.

(And also takes me back to "we just need less people"...an always uncomfortable discussion. One also could argue science got us into this environmental mess via technology...)

If you're gonna ditch the science altogether, then that doesn't leave room for discussion, only proselytizing. I gave up that game a long time ago; that brick wall hurts.

I think by trying to frame infinite nature from a finite position you may have read things into it that just aren't there. Religion is one step too far removed for my liking - I like my light direct. Perhaps even your concept of magic needs some finessing? 'Magic' doesn't displace 'science' - magic contains science. Known science is but a mere subset of all that is - there are other ways of knowing (or being) what is as yet unknown o:)

Think of it this way:-
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".
Or, (Gehm's corollary) - "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced".

As I have explained above and before - there's too many pyramids of assumptions built into the science on this issue for me to place any credence in it. I read through the opening pages of the literature - but couldn't get past all those assumptions - it made my head hurt ! I don't care if 97% of scientists do agree. There would have been a time when 97% of scientists agreed on 'ether' as well ..... thank goodness 3% of scientists put that airy-fairy notion to bed.

When standing in the shade of an old growth woodland by an ephemeral wetland with fully functioning hydrology (I did manage to restore a relatively small ~100's of acres area to that condition, the type that we've 99% destroyed), I've measured temperatures fully 20°C lower than the surrounding air, I've measure Carbon content in the soil 4, 8x or more that of the surrounding area, I've made rain fall whereas on surrounding areas it evaporates before it hits the ground, I've measured biodiversity that has exploded compared to the sterilized 'deserts' around it. I've seen water flow in the harshest of droughts. Thus I care not for 0.7°C or so of average temperature rise.

Your the 2nd person to misconstrue "boutique agriculture" so perhaps I will detail that more prescriptively in the appropriate thread. It absolutely can work - win - win - win. I would even support 'factory farming' animals appropriately - ie. with vastly vastly improved animal welfare, appropriately located (by necessity such a density of living being generated heat necessitates being in a cooler climate. It is also madness to locate them on arable or even grazing land), and with fully self-sufficient (energy/ heat, soil producing even) purpose designed facilities. All of this is so simple that only the inhumane pursuit of the almighty $ gets in the road.

What concerns me with the Climate Change 'religion' is that it does nothing to address the real causes of our issues.

Eventually too we must also address the sheer numbers of people if only for the sheer square footage (some sayings just don't translate into metric well ! :) of concrete that each demands. We either need to adjust the way we live - kilometres high self-sufficient crystal skyscrapers ...... or adjust the number of people. One only needs to peruse the comments sections of any Mars Colonization articles/ proposals to realize that inter-nation, inter-peoples, inter-species, and inter-generational equity is still a distant dream ...... it seems stoopid people do a lot of breeding !




Chosun :gh:
 
. . .Eventually too we must also address the sheer numbers of people. . .

Not “eventually” or even “concurrently” but “preliminarily”, such is the scope of the problem given the imminence of catastrophic global warming which is happening whether you believe in it or not. So by all means put you ideas into practice on whatever small scale you can manage. They’re hardly original and others have been doing so for years. in the States, for example, organic farms catering to the upscale restaurant trade are everywhere but no sensible person considers them the “solution” to anything much. For that, what’s needed is concerted political action on the regional, national and international levels not virtue-signaling and moral narcissism.
 
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..... no sensible person considers them the “solution” to anything much. For that, what’s needed is concerted political action not virtue-signaling and moral narcissism.

Then perhaps those "sensible" people really need to consider how 'wise' they are .... I really don't see what is so difficult to understand - the math is exceedingly simple: 0.67 x (>1.5) = >1 , and that's to say nothing of the gains to the resource 'asset base' and advantageous global effects ..... win-win-win-win-win-win.
If anything, such actions reduce arguments of "virtue-signalling and moral narcissism" to mere political pontification .....

Perhaps instead of yet another taxation regime what you really need is regime change ....... perhaps instead of "concerted political action" what you really need is an end to politics .....

It must be a really bitter pill to swallow for Indigenous wisdom and governance to be the answer for 'superior', 'advanced' societies .... but there you go - best take the 'medicine' sooner rather than later lest Mother keep slappin' y'all up the side of the head !

An interesting article which I'm sure can be misinterpreted by the blinkered nonetheless ..... "Moral Narcissism and the Least-Great Generation"
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/moral-narcissism-least-great-generation/





Chosun :gh:
 
Then perhaps those "sensible" people really need to consider how 'wise' they are .... I really don't see what is so difficult to understand - the math is exceedingly simple: 0.67 x (>1.5) = >1 , and that's to say nothing of the gains to the resource 'asset base' and advantageous global effects ..... win-win-win-win-win-win.
If anything, such actions reduce arguments of "virtue-signalling and moral narcissism" to mere political pontification .....

Perhaps instead of yet another taxation regime what you really need is regime change ....... perhaps instead of "concerted political action" what you really need is an end to politics .....

It must be a really bitter pill to swallow for Indigenous wisdom and governance to be the answer for 'superior', 'advanced' societies .... but there you go - best take the 'medicine' sooner rather than later lest Mother keep slappin' y'all up the side of the head !

An interesting article which I'm sure can be misinterpreted by the blinkered nonetheless ..... "Moral Narcissism and the Least-Great Generation"
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/moral-narcissism-least-great-generation/

Ah, back to the Philosopher King, I see, and the supposed “wisdom” of the Australian Aborigine (though to be fair you’ve consistently touted that particular piece of nonsense).

“Apolitical” regimes always go bad in the end, you know, however noble their beginnings. “Politics” (in their modern democratic republican form as in all others) are inevitably messy and inefficient because people are messy and inefficient but, as Aristotle pointed out long ago, they’re by far the safest bet given the infinite corruptibility of human nature.

Well, well, well, round and round we go, merrily, merrily, merrily. . ..
 
Ah, back to the Philosopher King, I see, and the supposed “wisdom” of the Australian Aborigine (though to be fair you’ve consistently touted that particular piece of nonsense).

“Apolitical” regimes always go bad in the end, you know, however noble their beginnings. “Politics” (in their modern democratic republican form as in all others) are inevitably messy and inefficient because people are messy and inefficient but, as Aristotle pointed out long ago, they’re by far the safest bet given the infinite corruptibility of human nature.

Well, well, well, round and round we go, merrily, merrily, merrily. . ..

#Ifyouknowyouknow ...... nothing 'supposed' about it :) :t:

I imagine the 'modern' world's Quantum Mechanics science will catch up eventually ..... until then perhaps some doors best remain hidden .... :cat:

You guys are hardly acing governance up to this point ..... can't say that I understand the objections to a faster Ferrari, a better mousetrap, or a bigger picture, but, oh well - best of luck :)




Chosun :gh:
 
WaPo conveniently forgot to mention all the water drained out of existence for profit, and the idjuts that lit a lot of the fires.

I'm surprised as 'serious' climate reporters that they didn't mention the IOD which is at record levels ....

Why should it be mentioned? The water's long gone and idiots are always lighting fires, What's new are the effects of AGW.

IOD, what's that?



Of course not, incomplete understanding is a hallmark of good science as opposed to (for example) the certainties of traditional "wisdom" in all its cocksure banality.
 
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Why should it be mentioned? The water's long gone and idiots are always lighting fires, What's new are the effects of AGW.

IOD, what's that?
The effects of the drained water have not been studied - I could tell you what traditional wisdom holds but wouldn't want to risk boring you ! :cat:

IOD = Indian Ocean Dipole (the first Google results to come up)
..... potentially a modeler's wet dream ..... :eat:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/iod/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_Dipole

Of course not, incomplete understanding is a hallmark of good science as opposed to (for example) the certainties of traditional "wisdom" in all its cocksure banality.

I'd have thought that the true scientist would be verily salivating at the prospects of uncovering the secrets of 'magic' :smoke: o:)





Chosun :gh:
 
The effects of the drained water have not been studied - I could tell you what traditional wisdom holds but wouldn't want to risk boring you !

C’mon, why not give it a shot? Might give me a laugh but pretty sure I wouldn’t be bored. At least—and this is an important caveat—if it’s not too wordy!
 
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Averages are meaningless. If 100 person make $20,000 dollars a year and the hedge fund manager makes 10,000,000 a year the average income of $118,000 does not provide a realistic picture of income distribution. Same applies to averages in terms of sea level changes and anyone who has traveled at all should be aware of variations.

The countries around the equator will have a higher rise and then there are the minor cities that are in danger of inundation such as London, New York, and Miami to name but a few.

Does anyone really trust the corporate media that is controlled by billionaires to provide an honest and complete picture of anything? The elites can choose where to have their homes and where to park their yachts and jets so rising seas will not affect them in the slightest.
 
Dear all,

Did you notice that this thread is 4 years old? Did you notice any rise of sea level since that time? It should be easy to see on any port construction in any coastal city. Then multiply it by 2,5 and you will have sea level rise until 2030. Multiply it by 8 and you will have a sea rise until 2050. Multiply it by 20 and you will have a sea level rise until 2100. Then go back to predictions from few years ago, how much should sea level rise until 2030, 2050 or 2100.

I did not notice any sea level rise.

I also notice that journals and newspapers went quiet about sea level rise at the time when it should be catastrophic.
 
uh..."notice"? That sure sounds like a scientific assessment of a complex issue

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-sea-level

First paragraph:
"Global mean sea level has risen about 8–9 inches (21–24 centimeters) since 1880, with about a third of that coming in just the last two and a half decades. The rising water level is mostly due to a combination of meltwater from glaciers and ice sheets and thermal expansion of seawater as it warms. In 2018, global mean sea level was 3.2 inches (8.1 centimeters) above the 1993 average—the highest annual average in the satellite record (1993-present)"

Obviously the impact here isn't going to be the same elsewhere. I know stateside increased flooding in Miami and surrounding areas is basically a regular thing now from normal king tides, something that didn't really happen outside of severe weather events before.

I'm not saying we are going to be in Waterworld in a decade, but saying "I didn't notice any change so no need to worry" is equivalent to the one politician a few years back who brought a snowball in from outside to disapprove climate change.
 
Dear all,

Did you notice that this thread is 4 years old? Did you notice any rise of sea level since that time? It should be easy to see on any port construction in any coastal city. Then multiply it by 2,5 and you will have sea level rise until 2030. Multiply it by 8 and you will have a sea rise until 2050. Multiply it by 20 and you will have a sea level rise until 2100. Then go back to predictions from few years ago, how much should sea level rise until 2030, 2050 or 2100.

I did not notice any sea level rise.

I also notice that journals and newspapers went quiet about sea level rise at the time when it should be catastrophic.

But Jurek, look at Venice...its almost completely under..., er, wait. That's right, Venice is bone dry right now.

Carry on.....
 
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