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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Binoculars for sustained use in shade and low light (1 Viewer)

Greetings everyone. I spend a significant amount of time viewing wildlife, sometimes from first light to sundown. This puts me in a situation where most of my time behind binoculars is spent either in first and last light, or looking into shaded trees and bushes. I have a few priorities, but my first one is low or no eye strain after hours of sustained use. The second priority is the ability to see into shadows, shaded canopies and thick bushes often at distances that exceed 100 meters and be able to identify species. So on that note color is important as well. I would say 75-80% of my time behind binoculars is with them mounted to a tripod due to the distance I’m viewing and the need for a steady picture.

I had a pair of 90s vintage 10x50 Trinovid that I used for years that were friendly on my eyes. I few years ago I purchased an 8+12 Duovid hoping the extra magnification would come in handy, which it does. However, I find the optics, while very good, are not as comfortable to me as the old Trinovid and color rendition seems a little more yellow to my eyes.

In short, what brand and model would you recommend for these scenarios? I spent some time looking through Swarovski el, Noctivids, and even Meoptas (which impressed me for their price). I haven’t had a chance to look through any Zeiss products in some time. For what ever reasons, none of the stores around here carry them. They all looked very good to me, but I was not able to test them off a tripod and in low light to see how they really perform. Thanks
 
I should add, I have a pair of 15x56 Swarovski slc. I’m looking for some thing in the 10 or 12x range I think, although I’m not opposed to 8x.
 
Peter's suggestion of SLC 10x56 is a good one but I wouldn't rule out Zeiss HT 10x54. I used to find HT42 useful when surveying for Water Voles in shadows under river banks. The 54 would be more comfortable hand-held too based on my experience with SLC 56, but if tripod use is your priority then the SLC has to be in the frame.

Value for money contender would be Meopta B1 8x56 but at the distances you mention and in twilight I think you need 10x and Meopta only do an 8 or a 15x.

Lee
 
Hi,

I was going to recommend sth higher mag when you mentioned using a tripod most of the time, but since you have a 15x, you're set there.

So we need sth which can be used hand-held and offers good low light performance. An 8x56 is good in theory with its 7mm exit pupil but not all users can actually profit from 7mm and also a higher magnification helps too in bad light. So I guess sth in the 10x5X range will be a good idea.
Since you seem to know the SLC 10x56, having a look at the other option HT 10x54 would certainly help - the 2mm less aperture will of course cost a bit of light, but the AK prisms plus the Zeiss trademark green-blue color rendition will help it compete (the green-blue color rendition means that the optics has a maximum transmission where the eye's rods have their maximum sensitivity).

Joachim
 
Another option would be Zeiss Victory FL 10x56, outstanding binos that can be bought second hand for a price around 1000+$.
You said "I spend a significant amount of time viewing wildlife, sometimes from first light to sundown". Out of curiosity, are you a biologist or a hunter?
 
Peter, I do hunt, which all my optics are used for. However, big game, which is my primary pursuit, has a relatively short season where I live. I love being outdoors, finding and seeking out wildlife. I am fortunate that I live in the western United States, where over 80% of the land is public in the area I reside. I spend many of my weekends out viewing wildlife, from small lizards up to elk, but birds have always been of particular interest to me. Particularly the smaller colorful species we have in my area such as tanagers, kinglets, wrens, etc. When I do this, it’s an all day affair. Many animals, even many of the birds in my area, disappear into the shade during the summer due to the heat.
 
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The 10x54 HT sounds like a perfect low light substitute to my 15x56 slc. How is the viewing comfort through the Zeiss? I’m not able to view the optics before buying unfortunately. As stated above, my primary concern is no eye strain and elimination of the annoying feeling of needing to re-focus.
 
chicoredneck

Taking into account that you are concerned with:
- ease of view over long sessions
- and viewing in low light situations

And that you:
- already have a 15x56 SLC (3.7 mm exit pupil)
- and primarily operate off a tripod

The main options would seem to be:
- 12x50 (4.1 mm EP)
- 10x50/ 54/ 56 (5 to 5.6 mm)
- 8x56 (7 mm)

So 10x is probably going to be the sweet spot in balancing magnification and exit pupil

When light levels are low, increased objective diameter - as it relates to exit pupil size - becomes increasingly important
The differences in cross sectional area are:
50 mm
54 mm - plus 17 %
56 mm - plus 7.5 % over 54 mm, plus 25 % over 50 mm

Usefully, Roger Vine has reviewed the Swarovski SLC HD 10x56 and EL SV 10x50, Zeiss HT 10x54 and Leica UV HD+ 10x50, see: http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/BinoReviews.htm
Roger’s reviews are detailed, perceptive and reliable. While he primarily writes from an astronomical perspective, he also addresses terrestrial use - including at dusk
So read carefully and go from there

The question then is how much improvement can you expect over your x42 Duovids (Roger has also reviewed the x50 version, so some comparison there)
In the end you should order what seems best, from a seller that allows returns like BH Photo or Adorama, and do a direct comparison


John
 
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Greetings everyone. I spend a significant amount of time viewing wildlife, sometimes from first light to sundown. This puts me in a situation where most of my time behind binoculars is spent either in first and last light, or looking into shaded trees and bushes. I have a few priorities, but my first one is low or no eye strain after hours of sustained use. The second priority is the ability to see into shadows, shaded canopies and thick bushes often at distances that exceed 100 meters and be able to identify species. So on that note color is important as well. I would say 75-80% of my time behind binoculars is with them mounted to a tripod due to the distance I’m viewing and the need for a steady picture.

I had a pair of 90s vintage 10x50 Trinovid that I used for years that were friendly on my eyes. I few years ago I purchased an 8+12 Duovid hoping the extra magnification would come in handy, which it does. However, I find the optics, while very good, are not as comfortable to me as the old Trinovid and color rendition seems a little more yellow to my eyes.

In short, what brand and model would you recommend for these scenarios? I spent some time looking through Swarovski el, Noctivids, and even Meoptas (which impressed me for their price). I haven’t had a chance to look through any Zeiss products in some time. For what ever reasons, none of the stores around here carry them. They all looked very good to me, but I was not able to test them off a tripod and in low light to see how they really perform. Thanks

Hi, Chico:

You have talked of eyestrain quite a bit. That has nothing to do with aperture or magnification. The first culprit there is the binocular being out of collimation and your ability to accommodate the spatial difference in the lines of site.

Even that is less bothersome than the ability to accommodate the DIOPTRIC difference between your eye focused in a RELAXED setting and where you stop focusing. I have recently tried to explain the importance of STARING to a fellow on Cloudy Nights only to find that a long career in precision optics and metrology can’t hold a candle to a newbie with an opinion. I will try here.

Learning to STARE—and letting the focus mechanism do its job—is critical in focusing a binocular!!! Too many people REFUSE to take that advice and spend an inordinate amount of time fiddling unnecessarily with the focus and experiencing eyestrain.

The brain wants to see things in focus quickly and if you are not careful, it will cause the eye’s ciliary muscles to stretch and compress the eyelens to bring an image into focus at an accommodatable—but strained—setting.

Then, the observer tries to make things better by fiddling with the focus and without STARING repeats the problem anew.

Let’s suppose you have a 4-diopter physiological accommodation and you stop focusing just as soon as the image is acceptable. That’s great. But what if your eye has a -1.5 diopter AT REST focus. Your image might be temporarily pleasant. But you will experience some eyestrain because your eyes weren’t at rest when you stopped focusing. Learning to STARE and letting the focus mechanism do its job precludes this.

Finally, people put too much stock in the numerals on the focus mechanism. Too, often, they are not set correctly. They came in hand in a wartime setting and when the instrument is being frequently lent to others. So, just stare and bring the focus to you regardless of what the numerals say. :cat:

Bill
 
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Bill,

Please go through the staring procedure in detail. For example, "Holding the binoculars away from your eyes ... (continue).

Thanks,
Ed
 
Bill,

Please go through the staring procedure in detail. For example, "Holding the binoculars away from your eyes ... (continue).

Thanks,
Ed

Go for it Ed; my feelings won't be hurt. A little crying and a couple of trips to the shrink and I'll be as good as new, as new, as new ... :cat:

Bill
 
Go for it Ed; my feelings won't be hurt. A little crying and a couple of trips to the shrink and I'll be as good as new, as new, as new ... :cat:

Bill

Hey Bill,

The short way of saying it is that I don't quite follow what you mean by "staring" in this situation. So I'm simply asking you to describe the procedure.

Ed
 
I get what you mean by staring. Let me put it this way. When selecting binoculars, the first thing I do is go through pairs and pick a common focus point. Put the binoculars up to my eyes and focus them to the common focus point, then trade between brands and models. Maybe I’m very sensitive, but if I can detect the slightest amount of strain, stress, or whatever you want to call it, I weed out the binocular. I use it as my very first test when selecting a new binocular. I generally don’t run into this issue with the alpha glass, but have before.
 
The 10x54 HT sounds like a perfect low light substitute to my 15x56 slc. How is the viewing comfort through the Zeiss? I’m not able to view the optics before buying unfortunately. As stated above, my primary concern is no eye strain and elimination of the annoying feeling of needing to re-focus.

I have the HT 10x42. I find them very comfortable to use and I feel like my eyes are relaxed using them. The eye relief works well for me -- I usually need a long ER to avoid having to hover. I find the focusing very precise on the Zeiss, and it is fairly easy to nail the focus quickly. I do not find I need to twiddle with the focus much, such as tracking birds flying across my field of view.

I picked them up used of the auction site for a very good price. They had a minor problem with the focuser, so I sent them in to Zeiss. They had to be sent back to Germany, so it took maybe 6-7 weeks, but they came back like new. No charge, even as 2nd hand.

Marc
 
Let’s suppose you have a 4-diopter physiological accommodation and you stop focusing just as soon as the image is acceptable. That’s great. But what if your eye has a -1.5 diopter AT REST focus. Your image might be temporarily pleasant. But you will experience some eyestrain because your eyes weren’t at rest when you stopped focusing. Learning to STARE and letting the focus mechanism do its job precludes this.

Finally, people put too much stock in the numerals on the focus mechanism. Too, often, they are not set correctly. They came in hand in a wartime setting and when the instrument is being frequently lent to others. So, just stare and bring the focus to you regardless of what the numerals say.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Another (perhaps less ambiguous) way of saying this: try to focus with your eyes at rest.
That's easier said than done for young people who have an excellent eye accommodation. However the magnitude of dynamic accommodation decreases with age (to about 1d for many members of the BF!) and the response time increases and then "staring" while focusing becomes less important, imo.

Regarding the numerals on the focus wheel, I believe only relatively old porros have them and I have never seen anybody paying attention to those numbers while focusing.

Peter
 
After reviewing the material in the link John provided, I’m pretty sold on the 10x56 slc.

That's an excellent choice. Personally I prefer the SV 10x50 for a number of reasons, but the SLC 10x56 is brighter (due to its larger EP and AK prisms) and that's important to you.
 
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