Three contradictory statements in some various books and articles (2 Viewers)

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 16, 2014

Just to be on "the safe side" …

As far as I understand there is little doubt that the (Scientific respective Common name of the) two species:
● Slaty-breasted Tinamou Crypturellus (erythropus) boucardi SCLATER 1859/1860 (ex Sallé MS) a k a "Boucard Tinamou " or "Boucard's Tinamou"
● Boucard's Wren Campylorhynchus jocosus SCLATER 1860 a k a "Boucard’s Cactus-wren"
… both commemorate the French ornithologist, natural history dealer, traveler and collector Adolphe Boucard (1839– … but when did he die? 1904 or 1905?

And what about:
● Blue-capped Kingfisher (Halcyon) Actenoides hombroni BONAPARTE 1850 a k a "Hombron's Wood-Kingfisher" or "Hombron’s Kingfisher"
… that commemorate the French Naval surgeon, naturalist and collector Jacques Bernard Hombron – but here the years vary from either (1798-1852) or (1800-1853)?

And, the third little question-mark:
● Red-chested Flowerpecker Dicaeum maugei LESSON 1830 a k a "Blue cheeked Flowerpecker", "Lesser Sunda Flowerpecker" or "Timor Flowerpecker" [discovered on Timor, Indonesia, present on several Indonesian Islands, in various subspecies]
… commemorating, according to some; the French zoologist "René Maugé de Cely (d.1802)" or "René Maugé [de Cely] (?–1802)" although other claim "… René Mauger , mort en mer le 21 février 1802)". It ought be, it must be, the same person, don´t you think … or? And if so (or not!), what´s his proper name … for sure? And when was he born?

Anyone of you guys "out there" know the truth?

On either one?

JustinJansen · Apr 16, 2014

René Maugé de Cely died at Maria Island while at the Baudin expedition. Don't know the year he was born. This bird was collected by Mauge by the way, and is in MNHN.

Paul Clapham · Apr 16, 2014

The French Wikipedia has an article headed "René Maugé de Cely" which says he was born in 1761.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Maugé_de_Cely

It also claims that Lesson named Dicaeum maugei after him.

The French Wikipedia article headed "Adolphe Boucard" claims that he died on 15 March, 1905.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe_Boucard

And the article headed "Jacques Bernard Hombron" claims his dates were 1798-1852; however the article is only a stub.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Bernard_Hombron

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 17, 2014

Paul Clapham said:
The French Wikipedia has an article headed "René Maugé de Cely" which says he was born in 1761.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Maugé_de_Cely

Thanks for trying, Paul,
But the French Wiki-page of "René Maugé de Cely" says he was born "Né v. 1761" (v. = vers =about).

And Wikipedia is Wikipedia where whomever can write whatever they feel like ...

I was looking, hoping for some more trustworthy sources.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 17, 2014

Attached is Lesson's own spelling, regarding the Flowerpecker Dicaeum maugei ...

... which, I think, exclude the "Mauger" suggestion, in some older sources.

James Jobling · Apr 17, 2014

H. M. Whittell, 1954, The Literature of Australian Birds, includes the following;
"Adolphe Boucard ...Born in France in 1839 ...He died at Hampstead, near London, on March 15, 1905."
"Jacques Bernard Hombron (1800-1853)...Born in Paris, France, April 4, 1800"
"René Maugé de Cely ...Maugé died on board the corvette Géographe, when off the coast of Tasmania on February 20, 1802, and was buried on Maria Island."

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 17, 2014

Mr. Maugé ...

I now wonder if "René Maugé de Cely" simply was "René Maugé" de Cely (meaning he was born/from Cely (Cély-en-Bière), in the French Departement Seine-et-Marne?

Most sources claim he died 21 February 1802, but that´s a minor thing at this point. It could just be an ever-repeated error. 20th or 21st ... February and 1802 seem to be the month and year. For example see this link from Sydney University or this one: Voyage de découvertes aux terres Australes

Some sources are quite presice: "At 11pm on February 20, 1802, René Maugé died of 'a bloody flux', dysentery."

There is apparently still, today, a "Point Maugé" where he was burried on the Southern Maria Island (or l'île Maria, close to the East coast of Tasmania ... not on/to Timor, as some sources claim) and others "... at the age of 42".

JustinJansen · Apr 17, 2014

It was René Maugé de Cely as far as I extracted. But only Maugé was used at his specimens that are present in multiply collections in the world.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 17, 2014

Mr. Hombron ... ?

Link Hombron, Jacques Bernard (1800-1852)?

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 17, 2014

Mr. Boucard ...?

According to the Condor ... ?

PS. According to The Auk

Paul Clapham · Apr 17, 2014

Calalp said:
And Wikipedia is Wikipedia where whomever can write whatever they feel like ...

I was looking, hoping for some more trustworthy sources.

Like the other sources you already found which disagree with each other? I wouldn't put down Wikipedia so readily. Remember the study from a year or two ago which found that the online Encyclopedia Britannica was just as error-prone as Wikipedia.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 19, 2014

Paul, well spoken!

Your´e quite right. Sorry if I stepped on your toes. Some Wikipedia pages are very thorough and well worth trusting!

The thing is I´m used to the Swedish Wikipedia, where many, just to many, entries regarding ornithology (and ornithologists) are based on an old, very out-dated, Encyclopedia from 1918. And on various people, trying to "fix it" ...

And that´s the whole problem. New as well as old, more or less reliable sources, quoting each other, translated from languages to languages, with various ways of transcription, with or without references, to what, in the end, all turn out very fuzzy.

I´m just trying to get it as right as I can ... even if I (that I have to admit) sometimes has to assume and speculate.

Melanie · Apr 19, 2014

Here is also state that Mauge died at age 42

http://books.google.de/books?id=aly...Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=René Maugé 1802&f=false

If this age is correct, 1761 as birth date would be incorrect.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 20, 2014

More on René Maugé …

Also see this link: Voyage de découvertes aux terres australes ...

Or this link; Pierre Bernard Milius: last commander of the Baudin Expedition (during which Maugé died):

Or this link to his grave inscription: "Here lies Citizen René Maugé, zoologist on the expedition …" (without the Cely part).

Or the PHD-Thesis Constructing the "Perfect Voyage by Nicole Starbuck 2009.

His full name could have been Pierre René Maugé, but I haven´t gotten any wiser regarding his dates (he died round 20-22 February 1802 … by some claimed at the age of 42 ... or by others as born circa 1761.

PS. Here´s another link that might help us narrowing down the Birth of René Maugé; La Reconnaissance française: L'expédition Baudin en Australie (1801-1803) (p.49)

Paul Clapham · Apr 20, 2014

I saw that last one, but it appears to refer to an earlier voyage: "Pour le voyage à Trinidad, le Muséum recommande René Maugé...".

By the way there's an English-language version of that book, but Google Books is much less open about its contents.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 21, 2014

Paul Clapham said:
I saw that last one, but it appears to refer to an earlier voyage: "Pour le voyage à Trinidad, le Muséum recommande René Maugé...".

Yes, Paul, I know, I only suggested that we by finding out when that phrase "Pour le voyage à Trinidad, le Muséum recommande René Maugé, 39 ans, ..." was written, that we might be able to trace down the birth year of Mr. Maugé? At least a little bit further ...

But that recquires knowledge of French far out of my league.

nartreb · Apr 21, 2014

The Trinidad expedition left France in September 1796. Planning for that expedition began in March 1796. So Mauge' was born in 1757 if Horner's book is correct that he was 39 at the time he was selected. The book was published in 1987, in Melbourne, in English; the French edition appeared in 2006.)

The English edition is hard to search online but I was able to verify that Mauge's age is the same in that edition.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 21, 2014

JustinJansen said:
René Maugé de Cely died at Maria Island while at the Baudin expedition. Don't know the year he was born. This bird was collected by Mauge by the way, and is in MNHN.

Justin, do you by any chance know exactly where and when Maugé collected it? Is it The Type? Does the label tell you/us anything?

Could be fun to mention, maybe worth a line or two ...

JustinJansen · Apr 21, 2014

Bjorn, it will be published in due course, I'm working on a PhD Thesis on the Baudin expedition (the 1800-1804 one). It was collected in 1802 near Kupang, Timor by Mauge himself.

Björn Bergenholtz · Apr 21, 2014

Justin,
Are you sure!? Timor in 1802. It´s a long way from offcoast Maria Island, East of Tasmania where Mr. Maugé supposedly passed away in February 1802?

I thought the Baudin Voyage left Timor in 1801?

But you ought to know, writing a PhD-thesis on the subject ...

PS. "Savu, Samau, Timor"

Three contradictory statements in some various books and articles (2 Viewers)

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