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Tit,Northern Greece (1 Viewer)

ody

Well-known member
Which Tit?
Marsh or willow?
 

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Glossy black cap and what seems to be a lack of a pale wing panel so I'll go for Marsh, the pale spot at the bill base is also visible.



A
 
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evenly long tail feathers - another pro marsh tit.

That's a new one on me...are willow tits more rounded?

Third vote for marsh BTW, pale spot at bill base as pointed out by Andy plus what seems to be a 'smaller headed' appearance, compared to 'bull necked' willow.
 
That's a new one on me...are willow tits more rounded?

Third vote for marsh BTW, pale spot at bill base as pointed out by Andy plus what seems to be a 'smaller headed' appearance, compared to 'bull necked' willow.

Tail corners are supposedly more rounded but it's very hard to see usually.



A
 
I read in one article that the underparts of the Willow Tit tend to be warm buff whereas those of the Marsh Tit are "pale buff"
This bird perhaps it appears rather pale underneath
Also the neck being smaller than that of the Willow Tit, which latter bird is reputed to accordingly have a "bullish" appearance, as opposed to the bird under consideration here.
The white cheeks of the Willow Tit are more extensive than those of the Marsh Tit which is I imagine another point in favour of this bird being a Marsh Tit perhaps
My small contribution
 
I read in one article that the underparts of the Willow Tit tend to be warm buff whereas those of the Marsh Tit are "pale buff"
This bird perhaps it appears rather pale underneath
Also the neck being smaller than that of the Willow Tit, which latter bird is reputed to accordingly have a "bullish" appearance, as opposed to the bird under consideration here.
The white cheeks of the Willow Tit are more extensive than those of the Marsh Tit which is I imagine another point in favour of this bird being a Marsh Tit perhaps
My small contribution

There is some racial variation,the Willow Tits we see in Russia are very pale underneath



A
 
If the tail is folded, from below you can usually recognise that in Willow Tit the outer tail feathers are shorter than the inner. E.g. shown in this picture: http://birdphoto.fi/lajikuvat/kuvahtml/0parmon129.html
Thanks, I've got a photo of my own I can't decide on - this might well help

There is some racial variation,the Willow Tits we see in Russia are very pale underneath



A

That's most interesting: I wasn't aware of geographical variation

According to Scythebill (using IOC taxonomy), British willow tits are subspecies kleinschmidti, whereas Andy's paler birds are most likely ssp. borealis (Scandinavia to Ukraine). I had ssp. restrictus in Japan recently, which are very pale. Unfortunately marsh tits (ssp. hensoni) are also very pale in Japan...
 
According to Scythebill (using IOC taxonomy), British willow tits are subspecies kleinschmidti, whereas Andy's paler birds are most likely ssp. borealis (Scandinavia to Ukraine). I had ssp. restrictus in Japan recently, which are very pale. Unfortunately marsh tits (ssp. hensoni) are also very pale in Japan...

And for northern Greece, Willow Tits (rare and confined to a very few high altitude sites in the far N) are nominate P. m. montanus, and Marsh Tits (scarce, but more widespread than Willow, and at somewhat lower altitudes) are nominate P. p. palustris :t:
 
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