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Sharpie vs. Coopers: Northern Utah (1 Viewer)

What species of pine tree is it in? Seems like a small bird compared to the needle length. Other than that, my answer to Andy is: nothing.

Also, you can *maybe* see the nape well enough to conclude that it looks better for Sharpie than Cooper, but I wouldn't have any confidence in that.
 
What can be seen here that rules out Cooper's?


A

Agree with nartreb that there's next to nothing to definitively prove that it's not Cooper's. However, there's something about the facial "expression" (rather cuter, less intense than Cooper's) that screams Sharp-shinned to me.
 
Agree with nartreb that there's next to nothing to definitively prove that it's not Cooper's. However, there's something about the facial "expression" (rather cuter, less intense than Cooper's) that screams Sharp-shinned to me.

I can see where you're coming from, but at this angle? You're a bolder IDer than I.
 
What can be seen here that makes it a Cooper's?

OP saw it in real life. He is "pretty sure" it is a Sharp-shin.

He also said he's "new to" IDing them, and this is a particularly difficult species pair to distinguish. We don't know on what basis he is "pretty sure".
 
What can be seen here that makes it a Cooper's?

OP saw it in real life. He is "pretty sure" it is a Sharp-shin.

I didn't say it looked like Cooper's or a Sharpie, it's a hard pair to distinguish and you usually need to see the tail and legs and get a better dea of the bulk which you can't from this shot.

Quite simply put, there is nothing in this shot that will rule either species in or out.


A
 
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How about that it looks like one? It has a small round head and small beak like this one pictured here:

http://www.peregrine-foundation.ca/raptors/Sharpshinned.html

Or here:

http://www.peregrine-foundation.ca/raptors/Hawks/sharpieOshawaMarch2005c.html

And white spots like them too.

“General impression of size and shape” (of just the head no less!) enough for a positive no-nonsense ID of this notoriously difficult species? Who would have thunk it? Makes one want to go back to the scores of earlier Coop vs Sharpie threads and set everybody straight. . .. ;)
 
Show me a Cooper's (where we can see the tail, feet, and/or nape) with that small and round of a head with the large, round eyes set near the middle, and that dark of a face.
 
“General impression of size and shape” (of just the head no less!) enough for a positive no-nonsense ID of this notoriously difficult species? Who would have thunk it? Makes one want to go back to the scores of earlier Coop vs Sharpie threads and set everybody straight. . .. ;)

Sometimes GISS will work and sometimes not. The pictures gave very little to work with here. There was the OPs opinion and he had seen the bird. And there was my memory of similar pictures. But without the pictures no one would have believed me.

http://www.10000birds.com/the-future-of-birding-field-guides-is-giss.htm

Bob
 
Show me a Cooper's (where we can see the tail, feet, and/or nape) with that small and round of a head with the large, round eyes set near the middle, and that dark of a face.

Ok, you're sticking to your claim that there's enough difference between an adult female Sharpie and adult male Coop to reliably discriminate between them on head shape & eye position alone. In my experience--and I'm talking field experience here, not looking-at-photos experience--head and eye shape & eye positioning can vary markedly with the angle and emotional state of the bird and thus provide a solid basis for positive ID only in conjunction with other field marks.
 
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Like most everyone this is a Sharpie to me. The small head, dark hooded look ( vs capped look of a Coopers) and what looks like a dark nape (given what can be seen) all speak Sharpie.
Andy
 
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