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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Astroscope + DSLR = Setups! (2 Viewers)

For a head that i use at the moment, i can recommend the Manfrotto 808RC4 @ around £85.. its pan & tilt, rather than a ball head, as IMO, they're much easier to use. If you have extra money, around £125, you could get the Manfrotto 393 Gimbal - i've used one of those too, and they're brilliant for the money

Tripods - too many to choose, but some of the beefier Manfrottos would be ok , like the 190XPROB - Morrisphoto have them on offer at just over £100

Others may have better suggestions
 
Thanks for the quick reply.

Sounds like I should be all set then, as I already have the Manfrotto 393 and the 190XPROB. :t:

To be honest, I never really seemed to get along with ballheads and much prefer a sturdy pan / tilt head.
 
Hi everyone, this is my first post after long being a lurker.

I recently bought a Canon 7d and have been struggling with a Sigma 400mm that only works at F5.6 on a 7d so I am looking at alternatives and am interested in the astroscope approach vs long telephoto but there is something I don't get.

Fernando Batista takes a fine photo with his TL APO804 which is equivalent to 480mm F6 and with a 1.4x converter becomes a 672mm F8.4 or with a 2x converter becomes a 960mm F12

Whereas others use a Skywatcher/Celestron/Orion ED80 which is equivalent to a 600mm F7.5 or a 840 mm F10.5 with a 1.4x converter.

However all of these solutions are heavy, are manual focus and require a solid tripod and a bit of adaptation.

Whereas I could buy a 300mm F4 L IS lens for $1300 which becomes a 420mm
F5.6 with a 1.4x or 600mm F8 with a 2x converter and still retain autofocus and have image stabilisation or I could stack converters to have a 840mm F11 manual. The 300mm is lightweight and with a monopod seems more versatile than going down the astroscope route.

Alternately I could buy an old canon/tamron/tokina 300mm F2.8 manual lens for the same price and still be ahead of the astroscope route. I even saw an old 600mm F4.5 lens on ebay going for not much more.

So what is the attraction?

Cheers
Mark
 
To be honest, I never really seemed to get along with ballheads and much prefer a sturdy pan / tilt head.

I use a Giottos MH-1000, which is a good ball head with a separate pan feature - very useful and versatile, but rather heavy.
 
So what is the attraction?

Cheers
Mark

Bang for the buck? ;)

For me it comes down to the pricing. I have just bought the SW 80ED and necessary adaptors for under £400. That's a lot of reach and optical quality for the price.
Yes, the dedicated fast glass does have the bells and whistles - image stabilisation, autofocus etc - but look at the cost. Start adding in TC's to get the focal length up and again you are adding to the cost and degrading the image.

Yes, it's all manual and helps to have good light, but it adds a bit of a challenge which is always soem of the fun. |:D|
 
Hi everyone, this is my first post after long being a lurker.

I recently bought a Canon 7d and have been struggling with a Sigma 400mm that only works at F5.6 on a 7d so I am looking at alternatives and am interested in the astroscope approach vs long telephoto but there is something I don't get.

Fernando Batista takes a fine photo with his TL APO804 which is equivalent to 480mm F6 and with a 1.4x converter becomes a 672mm F8.4 or with a 2x converter becomes a 960mm F12

Whereas others use a Skywatcher/Celestron/Orion ED80 which is equivalent to a 600mm F7.5 or a 840 mm F10.5 with a 1.4x converter.

However all of these solutions are heavy, are manual focus and require a solid tripod and a bit of adaptation.

Whereas I could buy a 300mm F4 L IS lens for $1300 which becomes a 420mm
F5.6 with a 1.4x or 600mm F8 with a 2x converter and still retain autofocus and have image stabilisation or I could stack converters to have a 840mm F11 manual. The 300mm is lightweight and with a monopod seems more versatile than going down the astroscope route.

Alternately I could buy an old canon/tamron/tokina 300mm F2.8 manual lens for the same price and still be ahead of the astroscope route. I even saw an old 600mm F4.5 lens on ebay going for not much more.

So what is the attraction?

Cheers
Mark

The methods you mention will never match the sharpness of an astro scope, especially once you start stacking teleconverters. And once you start start stacking teleconverters on anything but the best glass you will quickly gets soft images. Stacking teleconverters, or preferably other types of magnification on an astro scope beats even what is possible on a mega bucks Canon 600mm.

The scopes aren't that heavy, a Skywatcher 600mm is only 7.5lbs compared to a Canon 600mm which is nearly 12lbs. Any decent tripod and head will easily take the weight.

In UK currency a Canon 600mm is around £6500 where as the Skywatcher is £350 which makes a difference of £6150 for the same sort of image quality, that's the attraction. My usual working focal length is 900mm so there would be no point starting with anything shorter than 600mm. I get 1.5X lens groups from old zoom lenses that cost me just £1 and they match or beat my Kenko Pro 1.4X for image quality. Stacking a few of these is a lot better than introducing a 2X TC. The attraction is the amazing optical potential while saving a shed load of money.

Paul.
 
1+ what Paul said.

The Celestron is also spec'ed 7.5lbs (3,4 kg)

I checked mine and got 3196 grams. That is: tub with focuser, 1304grams; Glass with dewshield 900grams; extension tube 80mm with camera adapter 342grams, and scope/tripod mount, 650grams.

I could get down the weight 500grams by getting rid of celestron scope mount, and drilling some holes direct onto the tube (as I have done before, but now with the side-mounting gimbal I have to drill on the side of the scope)

That will leave me ca 2500grams of 600mm reach. If I could go the same route on my Olympus system, that would be a 300mm 2.8 + a 2x converter and land on 3,5 kg and 7120$ (B-H new york) not included shipping costs. I could deal with one kg more, but not the money aspect... ;-)
 
So what is the attraction?

Here are a few:

Image quality, the scopes resolution, sharpness, contrast (if properly baffled/flocked), bokeh…overall image clarity is far higher that any of the lens you mentioned can do.

Price, an ED80 costs less than 400€, and it’s a 600mm scope. To get the 300 F4 to 600mm you’ll need a TC witch is more 150€ at least, that’s 1450€ and to get what? AF? At F/8 the AF is not that good anyway. And the image quality is nowhere near the level of the ED80 either. I never used the canon 300 F4 but I had two Nikkor 300 F4 witch at least are very comparable to the canon's, and really the lens alone is not as good let alone with TCs.

Reliability, a scope will last forever, there’s no electronics, hardly any mechanics to go wrong, no parts to be discontinued after a few years. Ok, there’s the chip some of us have put and the iris I have on mine, but the chip cost next to nothing and an iris like mine wont go wrong easily. On the other hand, have you seen the price for the repair of an AF motor or a VR system? Or tried getting one of that used long teles into repair? Most of these old lenses can’t be repaired anymore due to lack of parts, your Sigma 400mm is an example of that.

Serviceability, I can easily dismount and clean the scope if needed, my 200-500 for example been a few months at the factory to get rid of the huge amount of dust it had inside.


You say we need stable tripods, well sure, but that is true for any long lens work. Forget stabilization, for ultimate sharpness a solid tripod is essential, VR or IS is just a workaround, a useful one and spectacular in some occasions but a solid tripod is key.
Manual focus it’s a matter of getting used to it, and in some occasions it can actually work better than AF. And when you try to keep up with a scope focal length with those lenses with TCs (300 F4+2xTC = F/8 ) AF wont be that good anyway. And ever tried comparing manual focusing one of those lenses to a scope, a scope is far easier to focus.
 
Thanks everyone for your detailed responses.

I will have to investigate it much further. Looking at the Lens Cell discussion, Fenando provides a good explanation of the benefits of astroscopes for light transmission vs photographic lenses with seemingly 'brighter' F stop specs.

Perhaps I don't have to lust after unaffordable Canon super-teles.
Cheers
Mark
 
Here are a couple of examples of the Skywatcher ED80 versus a Sigma 500mm F4.5 lens (ED80 = £300, Sigma Lens = £3400)

Both were taken in the same conditions and same place - both with my Nikon D7000. The chaffinch was in more direct light and the Robin slightly shaded but more or less the same distance. NO processing has been done re sharpness or contrast just minor exposure adjustment in Camera RAW

The Chaffinch was taken with AF on the Sigma, the Robin with Focus trap on the ED80.

For full size photos go here
Chaffinch, Sigma lens
Robin, Skywatcher ED80

For me, I see little difference - however the Skywatcher is much better IQ when used with TCs and home made TCs when compared with Siggy.

Points for me FOR the ED80:
Cost, Image quality, Reach (long range where the Siggy would be of no use).

Points for me AGAINST the ED80
Portability, manual focus (focus trap helps here)

So in my world, I would be using it in a situation where I need the reach, for shorebird or waders etc. I don't generally walk about with it (as I can with the Siggy). I do a lot of work in hides or my portable hide and either the Siggy or the ED80 is used (as in points above)
 

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Well, I now have the SW 80ED, Max DSLR and 50mm Extension tube, all having arrived quickly from First Light Optics during the week.
I have only had time to have a short "play" indoors shooting through the living room window (living on top of a hill in a 2nd storey flat overlooking the town helps with a view) and so far it's looking very good indeed.
I've tried my Pentax K5 on it and the Catch-in-Focus works fine, so that'll certainly aid things. I also have a Kenko 1.5x TC that has performed quite well on my DA*300mm F4 so I am keen to try that too.

It all seems sturdy enough on the Manfrotto 190XPROB tripod and 393 head which I already had.
One question - can any of you guys using long scopes recommend a good carrying case / backpack that this beastie will fit into? I often have to walk some way to get to my usual spots so thinking a backpack would be the best bet.

Anyhoos, weather forecast is for a clear night and good weather tomorrow so I'll be out at first light as usual, just a little more burdened than usual and getting the first test shots in at the reservoirs. ;)
 
Dont forget that flocking the inside of the tube itself, and the dew shade, and any ext tubes, will help the contrast. Maybe baffling the kenko TC too, recommended by Paul
 
Thanks Musoman, I'll look into the flocking issue.

It'll go on the list of things to do, along with a new paint job / toning down of the white bits! |=)|
 
Nikon D90
Tripod Fancier FT-6662A + ball head
Small table tripod
Manfrotto Monopod 680B
Skywatcher SW80ED + TS Adapter + T2 ring
Mcnett camo tape (2 different patterns)
 

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stabilization

I've tried my Pentax K5 on it and the Catch-in-Focus works fine, so that'll certainly aid things. I also have a Kenko 1.5x TC that has performed quite well on my DA*300mm F4 so I am keen to try that too.

I am curious about your setup using Pentax gear. In the earlier discussion, "VR" was mentioned as an expense avoided but I don't think in-camera stabilization was mentioned that could aid small telescopes. I would like to do a combination of hand-held and at other times, tripod wildlife photography. I don't always want to carry a heavy tripod. Have you ever experimented with the in-camera stabilization with Pentax (or Sony or Samsung) DSLR's? I have a K200D. Another reason, too, to BUY PENTAX or similar technology! ;)

Was thinking that using a light tripod or monopod and a smaller than usual setting in "SR" would help get a sharper photo compared to hand-holding. The Pentax I have only goes up to 800mm for the setting. And I know from reading a test study of different stabililzation technologies, most work best in the 100-200mm range and effectiveness falls off on either end. I wonder if using a monopod or light tripod with an 800mm lens (scope+TC) could work with a low SR setting in the 200mm range?? And this is not just conjecture, some people use a similar method of estimating shake reduction using old manual zooms which do not communicate focal length to the camera. Just something more to think about and try I guess.....

GA
 
Thats something i will experiment with, as i have a K200D too. Never thought of doing such a test. Soon as i stick my scope on, i set IS to 600mm

I'll try 200 and see what IQ is like on my monopod
 
My setup consist of Celestron C80ED, Chinese made T-2 to MA Mount, Chinese made Extension tubes, Sony A550, DIY Indian Gimbal and DIY Tripod. The Hood I have replaced with a 100mm PVC pipe which can be reverse mounted for mobility. The camera in pic is an old Minolta SLR for model only.
 

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My setup


Skywatcher 80ED
T2 to M42 adapter
old extension rings M42
M42 to 4/3 mount with chip
Olympus E-520
 

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