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When will the current alphas become 'obsolete' (1 Viewer)

Docter, the firm that picked up the Zeiss Jena binocular line, did use aspheric lenses in some of their small models.
They highlighted using a precision molding process to produce these lenses, but gave no details about any limitations. However, they never extended this technology into the rest of their offerings.
 
kabsetz said:
Aspherical lenses would help in reducing aberrations, as Lee says, and are used in high-end astronomical refractors.

With binoculars, I don't see them coming soon, as most manufacturers seem to think that aberration levels can be rather high without anyone noticing. There's still a lot of room for improvement with just tighter quality control, without which aspherical lenses would not add anything meaningful anyway.

Kimmo
Click to expand...

Kimmo,
In the past I know you have lauded the Canon IS binoculars for the perceived increase in detail. Do you think IS would be a good trend into the future?

I ask mostly because I've switched back to 7x for the improved stability, but I certainly miss 10x views and have been considering pairing the 7x with one of Canon's models.

It seems odd that Fujifilm, Canon, and a few other oddball manufacturers and oddities (such as the ancient IS model from Zeiss) are the only ones even messing with IS. That to me (along with your mention of improved/tightened QC) would be a huge boon for a lot of users.

Justin
 
Troubador said:
I am not sure what benefits aspherics could bring to binos...

Lee
Click to expand...

The first binoculars I recall advertising the use of aspherical elements were the Nikon Diplomats way back in the early 1990s. Then came Pentax (still used on some models) and Minox (apparently already come and gone). I'm sure there are a few others.

The benefits would depend on the location of the element: reduced spherical aberration if used in the objective group (no binoculars do that to my knowledge) or reduced field curvature and maybe astigmatism if used in the eyepiece. Minox seems to have used aspherical elements in the eyepiece not to improve performance but just to reduce the number of elements required for the same level of off-axis corrections.
 
jremmons said:
Kimmo,
In the past I know you have lauded the Canon IS binoculars for the perceived increase in detail. Do you think IS would be a good trend into the future?

I ask mostly because I've switched back to 7x for the improved stability, but I certainly miss 10x views and have been considering pairing the 7x with one of Canon's models.

It seems odd that Fujifilm, Canon, and a few other oddball manufacturers and oddities (such as the ancient IS model from Zeiss) are the only ones even messing with IS. That to me (along with your mention of improved/tightened QC) would be a huge boon for a lot of users.

Justin
Click to expand...

Justin,

My opinion ever since I got my first pair of IS binoculars over fifteen years ago has been that non-stabilised binoculars are obsolete for most uses. I just no longer bother to bring this up as often as before, as it is not a popular opinion and tends to get flaming responses from people with usually only passing and brief if any experience with good IS binoculars.

Kimmo
 
There must be a reason that there are not too many vendors who choose to make IS glass, they certainly have the opportunity. So to me there is no high demand, while I have used IS glass while viewing at night and liked it, I still prefer a simple optical (but costly) instrument for my viewing experience.
I think it is a matter of individual taste. Different strokes....

Andy W.
 
Kimmo,
Thank you for your comments. A few members of the Indiana Audubon Society utilize the IS L WP 10x42 and seem very happy with its performance. I wish somewhere around here would stock them so that I could potentially try before buying, but that seems unlikely. I found only 1 distributor within 100+ miles, and they do not actively stock them.

I may order a pair of the 10x30 IS to replace some work binos that are no longer serviceable; at least this way I could get a feel for IS binos, but the 10x30 EP does not seem particularly appealing as compared to that of the 10x42.

Justin
 
henry link said:
The first binoculars I recall advertising the use of aspherical elements were the Nikon Diplomats way back in the early 1990s. Then came Pentax (still used on some models) and Minox (apparently already come and gone). I'm sure there are a few others.

The benefits would depend on the location of the element: reduced spherical aberration if used in the objective group (no binoculars do that to my knowledge) or reduced field curvature and maybe astigmatism if used in the eyepiece. Minox seems to have used aspherical elements in the eyepiece not to improve performance but just to reduce the number of elements required for the same level of off-axis corrections.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this Henry. So it sounds like some of the benefits found in fixed focal length lenses and mentioned in post 179 might also apply to binos. The next question is whether the benefits would be worth the cost. I wouldn't be surprised if none of Leica/Swaro/Zeiss have grinding machines capable of producing aspherical lenses so it would either be a substantial capital investment based on a hope that the market would be willing to pay the extra for the binos or they would have to turn to a company already equipped to produce aspherics. I don't know for sure but I would be willing to bet Meopta can do this.

Lee
 
Hi Lee,

I'm pretty sure the ones I mentioned were/are molded plastics, so most likely cheaper than spherical glass lenses. Even cheaper if a single molded plastic lens replaces two glass lenses.

Henry
 
henry link said:
Hi Lee,

I'm pretty sure the ones I mentioned were/are molded plastics, so most likely cheaper than spherical glass lenses. Even cheaper if a single molded plastic lens replaces two glass lenses.

Henry
Click to expand...

But would the market welcome plastic lenses? Some folks did not view Zeiss's FL with favour due to the 'plastic' body. Wouldn't plastic lenses (even if they performed well) be a step too far?

Lee
 
I expect the marketing of aspherical lenses in binoculars will continue to shy away from the word plastic. ;)

The real point of my post was to note that binocular models with aspherical lenses in the eyepieces have come and gone for quite a while without really catching on, much less creating a revolution in binocular design.

Henry
 
henry link said:
I expect the marketing of aspherical lenses in binoculars will continue to shy away from the word plastic. ;)

The real point of my post was to note that binocular models with aspherical lenses in the eyepieces have come and gone for quite a while without really catching on, much less creating a revolution in binocular design.

Henry
Click to expand...

Plastic lenses are widely used for eye glasses, to cut the size and weight of the lenses, but rational considerations often go out the window when contemplating binocular purchases....

That said, if a combination of plastic aspherics could produce an 8x60 that is really lightweight while still optically top notch, it might get traction.
 
henry link said:
Minox seems to have used aspherical elements in the eyepiece not to improve performance but just to reduce the number of elements required for the same level of off-axis corrections.
Click to expand...
One wonders whether that was cost-effective, perhaps just an experiment (for/by Leica?). With today's high-transmission coatings, few seem to worry about how many conventional elements it takes to do the job. Then again, as costs inevitably come down...?

(Edit: Re: plastic... I believe Leica was using molded glass aspherics in camera lenses a decade or two ago.)
 
Last edited:
tenex,

A little more research turned up a few extra wrinkles. I forgot that Pentax used hybrid aspherical elements (a plastic aspherical layer bonded to a glass lens.) Some Minox material from 2004 claims that their BR ASPH binocular series used real glass for the aspherical elements. I'm still going on memory about the plastic lens in the old Nikon Diplomat, but I notice that the current cheapest Nikon binoculars, the Aculons, use aspherical elements. Those must be very inexpensive to make, so almost certainly not glass.

Henry
 
Last edited:
Henry:

This thread has drifted to talk about construction of lenses, and optical systems. And if you notice the main references are with camera names, some with over 100 years of experience.

I suspect they do have some experience.

Back on topic, and I may have mentioned it already, none of the alpha optics are obsolete, some that have been
out for many years. They still do a great job.

The word "obsolete" is not appropriate here.

Jerry
 
NDhunter said:
Henry:

This thread has drifted to talk about construction of lenses, and optical systems. And if you notice the main references are with camera names, some with over 100 years of experience.

I suspect they do have some experience.

Back on topic, and I may have mentioned it already, none of the alpha optics are obsolete, some that have been
out for many years. They still do a great job.

The word "obsolete" is not appropriate here.

Jerry
Click to expand...

True Jerry, and on the ferry ships off Scotland I regularly see Leica BA/BNs and Dialyt 7x and 10x still being used and enjoyed today. No reason to think that the current crop of alphas will be any different in 10 or 20 year's time.

Lee
 
NDhunter said:
Henry:

This thread has drifted to talk about construction of lenses, and optical systems. And if you notice the main references are with camera names, some with over 100 years of experience.

I suspect they do have some experience.

Back on topic, and I may have mentioned it already, none of the alpha optics are obsolete, some that have been
out for many years. They still do a great job.

The word "obsolete" is not appropriate here.

Jerry
Click to expand...
Yes Jerry, I agree that obsolete was not the correct terminology (I mentioned this in a previous post, and also made sure to include the term in quotation marks in the title), but it was the simplest way I could think to describe the purpose of this thread.

I still use a 10x42 Bausch and Lomb Elite as a car binocular, and don't think I've found any pair of binoculars I yet prefer to the 7x42 Victory T*FL.

Justin
 
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