Oh No, Not Another Binocular Advice Plea! (1 Viewer)

justabirdwatcher · May 13, 2019

I've always been a big Nikon Monarch 7 fan. I think they represent the best price

erformance value in their price range and have for a decade or more now. Viper HD's are close, but I trust the Nikons more.

I'd be curious to hear how your Vanguard IV's stack up to the Monarch 7's.

I've written this before, but last year I bought two pairs of Meopta Meopro's (8's and 10's) and I returned them both the same day I got them. I think one was actually the same hour. They had so much distortion I couldn't bear to look through them. For my eyes, they were simply awful. I cannot recommend Meopro's at all based on the two brand-new pairs I had to look over.

I just bought a pair of Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42's off FeeBay for less than $500. So if your budget changes any, and you're patient, you can upgrade your glass. I had a chance to buy some 8x32 Swarovski SLC and 8x32 Meostar's for $450 recently (but passed on both) - just for reference.

ceasar · May 13, 2019

FieldSurveyor said:
Hi Bob. Thanks. I was really torn between 8x42 and 10x42. I ended up going with a 10x42 partly because it's different than what I have. The 8x42 was $120 less on Amazon.

I have read some stories about Nikon's excellent customer service and warranty. Who knows, maybe I will end up going that route.

If I end up with a Nikon I will go with the Monarch 7.

As for ordering a bunch, that would probably be the way to go. I just never seem to have the guts to order 4 or 5 pair out of fear I might get stuck with them! Amazon is pretty good about returns though.

Thanks!

Hi again!

I suggested the Monarch 8x42 because Jerry Liguori, who has written two popular books about Hawk Identification: HAWKS At A Distance and HAWKS From Every Angle uses and recommends using binoculars that have a wide field of view.

He personally used a Zeiss 7x45 Nightowl from1994 until 2008 when he began using a Zeiss 7x42 Victory FL because of their very wide fields of view but he said many people may prefer an 8x or 10x. He did stipulate that they be "High Quality" binoculars.

Here is a personal review of the Monarch 7 10x42 from Allbinos. The reviewer purchased it for watching Hawksl

https://www.allbinos.com/1476-Nikon_Monarch_7_10x42-binoculars_specifications.html#oceny

Bob

jgraider · May 13, 2019

I'd make note of a bino called the Athlon Midas in 8x42. You'll be shocked.

denco@comcast.n · May 13, 2019

"Here is a personal review of the Monarch 7 10x42 from Allbinos. The reviewer purchased it for watching Hawksl

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...www.allbinos.com/1476-Nikon_...ons.html#oceny

It is interesting that the reviewer only gave the Nikon Monarch 7's 10x42 3 stars for optical quality. He must not be that enamored with them. It sounds like he likes his Leupold Gold Rings better.

"My comparison binos are 8x42 Leupold gold ring HD, which is definitely a step up in the lack of CA, and low light operation."

The reviewer also comments on the soft edges of the Nikon Monarch 7 10x42

"Cons: Some chromatic aberration when the view is backlit sharply falls off in outer 1.3 of fov

That is one thing I don't like about Nikon Monarch 7's. Soft edges. Here is Allbino's result on edges on the 8x42 Nikon Monarch 7.

"Blurring at the edge of the FOV The blur occurs in a distance of 73% +\- 3% from the centre of the field of view. 4/10.0"

denco@comcast.n · May 13, 2019

jgraider said:
I'd make note of a bino called the Athlon Midas in 8x42. You'll be shocked.

On Outdoor Gear Lab's review which are quite good reviews the Athlon Midas was 11th out of 15. They said they were pretty good at the $300.00 price point but the Celestron Nautre DX was nearly as good for 1/2 the price.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/binoculars/athlon-midas-8x42

FieldSurveyor · May 13, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
I've always been a big Nikon Monarch 7 fan. I think they represent the best priceerformance value in their price range and have for a decade or more now. Viper HD's are close, but I trust the Nikons more.

I'd be curious to hear how your Vanguard IV's stack up to the Monarch 7's.

...

I just bought a pair of Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42's off FeeBay for less than $500. So if your budget changes any, and you're patient, you can upgrade your glass. I had a chance to buy some 8x32 Swarovski SLC and 8x32 Meostar's for $450 recently (but passed on both) - just for reference.

I'll report back here with my findings. The latest news is Amazon sent an email saying the shipper has reported the item damaged in transit so I will be waiting until the weekend to get a pair (they can get a pair here sooner but I will be out of town until Friday.)

As for used, yes, I see a lot of great deals on FleaBay. I'm tempted to pick up a pair of older Nikon porros.

ceasar said:
Hi again!

I suggested the Monarch 8x42 because Jerry Liguori, who has written two popular books about Hawk Identification: HAWKS At A Distance and HAWKS From Every Angle uses and recommends using binoculars that have a wide field of view.

He personally used a Zeiss 7x45 Nightowl from1994 until 2008 when he began using a Zeiss 7x42 Victory FL because of their very wide fields of view but he said many people may prefer an 8x or 10x. He did stipulate that they be "High Quality" binoculars.

Here is a personal review of the Monarch 7 10x42 from Allbinos. The reviewer purchased it for watching Hawksl

https://www.allbinos.com/1476-Nikon_Monarch_7_10x42-binoculars_specifications.html#oceny

Bob

Note taken. It will be interesting to see if I prefer the FOV of a lower power binocular.

jgraider said:
I'd make note of a bino called the Athlon Midas in 8x42. You'll be shocked.

I do remember reading about the Athlon. They sound like nice glass, but again, nowhere to try them first.

[email protected] said:
"Here is a personal review of the Monarch 7 10x42 from Allbinos. The reviewer purchased it for watching Hawksl

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...www.allbinos.com/1476-Nikon_...ons.html#oceny

It is interesting that the reviewer only gave the Nikon Monarch 7's 10x42 3 stars for optical quality. He must not be that enamored with them. It sounds like he likes his Leupold Gold Rings better.

"My comparison binos are 8x42 Leupold gold ring HD, which is definitely a step up in the lack of CA, and low light operation."

The reviewer also comments on the soft edges of the Nikon Monarch 7 10x42

"Cons: Some chromatic aberration when the view is backlit sharply falls off in outer 1.3 of fov

That is one thing I don't like about Nikon Monarch 7's. Soft edges. Here is Allbino's result on edges on the 8x42 Nikon Monarch 7.

"Blurring at the edge of the FOV The blur occurs in a distance of 73% +\- 3% from the centre of the field of view. 4/10.0"

Many speak of soft edges on the Monarchs. I'm not sure I would notice. I honestly don't spend much time looking around the edges!

[email protected] said:
On Outdoor Gear Lab's review which are quite good reviews the Athlon Midas was 11th out of 15. They said they were pretty good at the $300.00 price point but the Celestron Nautre DX was nearly as good for 1/2 the price.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/binoculars/athlon-midas-8x42

Outdoor Gear Lab really likes those Celestrons. I'd be curious to try a pair.

By the way, of the binoculars under $500, are any still made in Japan? I know many Vortex used to be but it sounds like they're all Chinese now. Monarchs are made in China too, and the Nikon EII is made in the Philippines I hear.

Thanks

denco@comcast.n · May 13, 2019

There was somebody on Bird Forum who REALLY liked those Celestron Nautre DX's for $140.00. I forgot who it was. The Nikon EII being made in the Phillippines is news to me. I always thought they were made in Japan. I wouldn't doubt it though. I see soft edges for some reason even when I am looking on-axis.

marcsantacurz · May 13, 2019

FieldSurveyor said:
As for ordering a bunch, that would probably be the way to go. I just never seem to have the guts to order 4 or 5 pair out of fear I might get stuck with them! Amazon is pretty good about returns though.

You could use Amazon, B&H, Adoramma, or OpticsPlanet (to name a few). I've ordered and returned stuff with all of them, they all take returns well. Amazon is likely the zippiest are processing refunds. B&H has a program with a store credit card (only works at B&H) where they will charge you CA tax then refund you the same amount on the credit card. They call it Payboo. In any case, if you order just after your credit card statement comes out, you should be able to get the bins, try them out, and return them before the charges hit your statement. I usually don't bother trying to time it.

If you want to buy semi-locally, you could try Out Of This World Optics, in Mendocino. Marilyn there is super helpful, and responds to emails or phone well. I bought my Opticron MM4 fieldscope there because I could try it out first and they could customize it as I wanted. They do some birding events and optics events, so they might be up in your area. Give them an email or call if interested. In your price range, they probably have a fair selection in stock.

Marc

jgraider · May 13, 2019

[email protected] said:
On Outdoor Gear Lab's review which are quite good reviews the Athlon Midas was 11th out of 15. They said they were pretty good at the $300.00 price point but the Celestron Nautre DX was nearly as good for 1/2 the price.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/binoculars/athlon-midas-8x42

My buddy owns the new mega LGS here. I can tell you first hand that the Midas is way better than the Terra, and every bit the bino the Viper HD and McKinley BX4 is.

I guess it all depends on which review you trust, doesn't it Dennis? Most people trust the one that matches their opinion. I prefer to go into it open minded, knowing I have always had to look through a bino to determine if it was worth a crap for my needs.
https://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/AthlonMidas8x42BinocularsReview-230.htm

FieldSurveyor · May 13, 2019

[email protected] said:
There was somebody on Bird Forum who REALLY liked those Celestron Nautre DX's for $140.00. I forgot who it was. The Nikon EII being made in the Phillippines is news to me. I always thought they were made in Japan. I wouldn't doubt it though. I see soft edges for some reason even when I am looking on-axis.

They really were not on my radar actually. If I see some I will try them though.

marcsantacurz said:
You could use Amazon, B&H, Adoramma, or OpticsPlanet (to name a few). I've ordered and returned stuff with all of them, they all take returns well. Amazon is likely the zippiest are processing refunds. B&H has a program with a store credit card (only works at B&H) where they will charge you CA tax then refund you the same amount on the credit card. They call it Payboo. In any case, if you order just after your credit card statement comes out, you should be able to get the bins, try them out, and return them before the charges hit your statement. I usually don't bother trying to time it.

If you want to buy semi-locally, you could try Out Of This World Optics, in Mendocino. Marilyn there is super helpful, and responds to emails or phone well. I bought my Opticron MM4 fieldscope there because I could try it out first and they could customize it as I wanted. They do some birding events and optics events, so they might be up in your area. Give them an email or call if interested. In your price range, they probably have a fair selection in stock.

Marc

It's really funny you mentioned Out of This World, because tomorrow I have to go to Fort Bragg (10 minutes from there) for work. I may just have time to swing by there. I was there years ago (at least 10) and remember looking through some Carsons for the first time. I was really impressed.

Thanks

denco@comcast.n · May 13, 2019

jgraider said:
My buddy owns the new mega LGS here. I can tell you first hand that the Midas is way better than the Terra, and every bit the bino the Viper HD and McKinley BX4 is.

I guess it all depends on which review you trust, doesn't it Dennis? Most people trust the one that matches their opinion. I prefer to go into it open minded, knowing I have always had to look through a bino to determine if it was worth a crap for my needs.
https://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/AthlonMidas8x42BinocularsReview-230.htm

I trust the reviews more than one persons opinion because they usually have a group of people doing the reviews and some of them like Allbino's have objective testing instead of just subjective testing as part of their review process which I like. I pretty much agree with all the reviews except in a few cases. I like Allbino's, Outdoor Gear Lab, Scope Views and Best Binocular Reviews. I really feel Allbino's is spot on 99% of the time.

Patudo · May 14, 2019

FieldSurveyor said:
Zeiss Dialyt 10x40. I know they can be had used for close to my price range. Is that something I should consider? I suspect coatings have come a long way since then, and possibly glass (I’m not sure when ED glass became available.)

I have no experience of most of the binoculars you mention in your original thread, but I use my P model Dialyt 10x40 quite a bit (including yesterday to observe two successful hunts by the male of a pair of peregrines in West London). The top-line Zeiss products that succeeded it eg. Victory FL are a little brighter and a little sharper, and so too is today's Conquest HD (at least the one I tried at Birdfair a couple years back), but it is still more than good enough optically for most of the birding I do, and remains a very compact handy package that, for me at least, handles and points very well. The silver mirrored prisms give a warmer colour cast and a less "contemporary" view compared to modern dielectric coatings - you do notice this if you have something like a FL to make a side by side comparison with, but in actual use this hasn't been an issue, to my eyes at least.

Now for a contrary view you should consult this thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=371882

jring · May 14, 2019

[email protected] said:
The Nikon EII being made in the Phillippines is news to me. I always thought they were made in Japan. I wouldn't doubt it though. I see soft edges for some reason even when I am looking on-axis.

Hi,

the box my pair came in says Made in Philippines for the box and bins made in Japan iirc. Maybe the differentiation between box and contents was not always there.

As for unsharp edges - that is not necessarily a flaw and to be expected for a pair without field flattening (see Smyth corrector - http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/forum/Smyth-Barlow lenses.html).

The question is, if you can bring the unsharp edges to focus by turning the focus drive - if yes, the bins are fine. If not there are off axis aberrations present in the instrument.

Joachim

denco@comcast.n · May 14, 2019

Exactly that is field curvature. I know soft edges are not technically a flaw but I don't LIKE them. I can see them even when I am looking on-axis. That is why I prefer flat field binoculars with sharp edges. Swarovski SV's and Nikon EDG's are my favorites. My Nikon EII's said MIJ on them also so I am sure they are.

ceasar · May 14, 2019

[email protected] said:
Exactly that is field curvature. I know soft edges are not technically a flaw but I don't LIKE them. I can see them even when I am looking on-axis. That is why I prefer flat field binoculars with sharp edges. Swarovski SV's and Nikon EDG's are my favorites. My Nikon EII's said MIJ on them also so I am sure they are.

Yes, they are made in Japan.

Nikon chose the 8x30 EII to be their 100th Year Anniversary Binocular and issued a special edition of them.

Bob

FieldSurveyor · May 16, 2019

jring said:
Hi,

the box my pair came in says Made in Philippines for the box and bins made in Japan iirc. Maybe the differentiation between box and contents was not always there.

As for unsharp edges - that is not necessarily a flaw and to be expected for a pair without field flattening (see Smyth corrector - http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/forum/Smyth-Barlow lenses.html).

The question is, if you can bring the unsharp edges to focus by turning the focus drive - if yes, the bins are fine. If not there are off axis aberrations present in the instrument.

Joachim

Ok, not sure where I read that EII's were made in Philippines. It must be incorrect.

It sounds odd that the focus wheel could (in some bins) bring the dull edges into focus. I will be on the lookout.

[email protected] said:
Exactly that is field curvature. I know soft edges are not technically a flaw but I don't LIKE them. I can see them even when I am looking on-axis. That is why I prefer flat field binoculars with sharp edges. Swarovski SV's and Nikon EDG's are my favorites. My Nikon EII's said MIJ on them also so I am sure they are.

This makes sense to me.

ceasar said:
Yes, they are made in Japan.

Nikon chose the 8x30 EII to be their 100th Year Anniversary Binocular and issued a special edition of them.

Bob

Get them while you can. I'm told all EII's are gone...the only ones available are the ones you see at various shops on the web. Out of This World in Mendocino doesn't have them and can't get them.

FieldSurveyor · May 16, 2019

So I was able to swing by Out of This World in Mendocino yesterday. Marilyn was awesome and took the time to let me look through at least 10 pair of binoculars. Here's what I looked through:

Nikon Monarch 7 in 8x42 and 10x42
Leupold BX-T HD in 8x42 and 10x42mm
Vanguard Endeavor IV in 8x42 and 10x42
Meopta MeoPro in 8x42 and 10x42
Zeiss Conquest in 10x42
Leica Trinovid 10x42

(The last two were just to see what I was missing. I didn't dare try out the top of the range stuff.)

All in all it was a very informative visit. I immediately was able to make some decisions. Firstly, the Nikon Monarch 7 is a very nice binocular. It is very sharp almost all the way to the edge. The build quality is (as far as I can tell) very high. But it didn’t look as bright as the Vanguard, nor quite as sharp away from center.

The Meopta is a really nice piece of hardware. When you pick it up it just feels high quality. The chassis is all metal. Looking through them I saw no obvious defects. Again, I am a novice, so take that with a grain of salt. But again, they were lagging just a bit behind the Vanguards.

The Leupold was interesting. It was the only piece made in Japan, so I had high hopes. It felt fine, but I dismissed it fairly quickly. The view just didn’t look as vibrant as the others (for me.) And it was $559.

I kept going back and forth, expecting to like something else better, but honestly the Vanguard’s had the best view. They were really bright, and appeared sharp way out to the edge. The build quality felt top notch, with smooth focusing and a nice feel in the hand.

My favorite bino of the day was the Zeiss Conquest though. But….just too much money right now. I may keep my eyes peeled for a good used one. The Leica was right there with it and I know I’ve seen those for under $700.

One thing that really puzzled me is the Vanguard 8x vs the 10x. They looked almost identical. I went back and forth many times. The 8x felt more like a 10x to me. All of the other brands were easily discernible between the 8x and the 10x.

I was so tempted to just buy right then and there! I remembered the 8x Vanguard on Amazon was $120 less than the 10x, but the price there at the shop was the same for each power. Also, I have the $100 gift card at Amazon.

I highly recommend making a trip to Mendocino to see Marilyn at Out of This World (as a plus it is absolutely beautiful up there on the coast.)

eronald · May 16, 2019

FieldSurveyor said:
So I was able to swing by Out of This World in Mendocino yesterday. Marilyn was awesome and took the time to let me look through at least 10 pair of binoculars. Here's what I looked through:

Nikon Monarch 7 in 8x42 and 10x42
Leupold BX-T HD in 8x42 and 10x42mm
Vanguard Endeavor IV in 8x42 and 10x42
Meopta MeoPro in 8x42 and 10x42
Zeiss Conquest in 10x42
Leica Trinovid 10x42

(The last two were just to see what I was missing. I didn't dare try out the top of the range stuff.)

All in all it was a very informative visit. I immediately was able to make some decisions. Firstly, the Nikon Monarch 7 is a very nice binocular. It is very sharp almost all the way to the edge. The build quality is (as far as I can tell) very high. But it didn’t look as bright as the Vanguard, nor quite as sharp away from center.

The Meopta is a really nice piece of hardware. When you pick it up it just feels high quality. The chassis is all metal. Looking through them I saw no obvious defects. Again, I am a novice, so take that with a grain of salt. But again, they were lagging just a bit behind the Vanguards.

The Leupold was interesting. It was the only piece made in Japan, so I had high hopes. It felt fine, but I dismissed it fairly quickly. The view just didn’t look as vibrant as the others (for me.) And it was $559.

I kept going back and forth, expecting to like something else better, but honestly the Vanguard’s had the best view. They were really bright, and appeared sharp way out to the edge. The build quality felt top notch, with smooth focusing and a nice feel in the hand.

My favorite bino of the day was the Zeiss Conquest though. But….just too much money right now. I may keep my eyes peeled for a good used one. The Leica was right there with it and I know I’ve seen those for under $700.

One thing that really puzzled me is the Vanguard 8x vs the 10x. They looked almost identical. I went back and forth many times. The 8x felt more like a 10x to me. All of the other brands were easily discernible between the 8x and the 10x.

I was so tempted to just buy right then and there! I remembered the 8x Vanguard on Amazon was $120 less than the 10x, but the price there at the shop was the same for each power. Also, I have the $100 gift card at Amazon.

I highly recommend making a trip to Mendocino to see Marilyn at Out of This World (as a plus it is absolutely beautiful up there on the coast.)

Why not buy there, and use the Amazon card later or resell it?

I'm sure that shop will try to help you out a bit on price if you explain things and stand behind you if you need to swap your new binos or need help with them.

More importantly, it's usual to test a pair before buying it, binocular samples vary a lot.

Edmund

ceasar · May 16, 2019

jring said:
Hi,

the box my pair came in says Made in Philippines for the box and bins made in Japan iirc. Maybe the differentiation between box and contents was not always there.

As for unsharp edges - that is not necessarily a flaw and to be expected for a pair without field flattening (see Smyth corrector - http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/forum/Smyth-Barlow lenses.html).

The question is, if you can bring the unsharp edges to focus by turning the focus drive - if yes, the bins are fine. If not there are off axis aberrations present in the instrument.

Joachim

I read somewhere recently that Kamakura has a plant in the Philippines.

Bob

denco@comcast.n · May 16, 2019

From Scopeviews Reviews http://scopeviews.co.uk/Swaro10x40Habicht.htm

"So, I thought it was time I took a look at the last porro-prism binocular range from a premium manufacturer – Swarovski’s Habichts, specifically the 10x40 which should be good for both birding and astronomy. These don’t really count as a modern porro-prism design, though, because they are based on a sixty year old model. But what they are is a porro-prism binocular built to the highest standards, in the same Austrian factory as Swarovski’s other products. (I’m afraid that Nikon’s EIIs – now made in Malaysia – don’t count as premium on either front, design or manufacture, good though they are.)"

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