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Warbler id ? (1 Viewer)

peteh

Well-known member
Hi, I thought this was a sedgey to begin with till I saw the plain back.
Anyone got any ideas?
(This was in the Isle of man, at an area around a very small river.
Lots of reeds, gorse & thorn bushes there but this bird seemed to fancy the ferns the most.)

Thanks
Pete.
 

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Its very hard to tell from the angle (the facial features are always usefull in these situations, but is it possibly reed warbler?
 
Hi Pete,

Definately not a Sedge as you suggested. My opinion would be a Reed Warbler (acrocephalus scirpaceus). The plain brown plumage rules out Sedge and Gr'opper. It appears to be a nice warm brown to the upperparts ruling out Garden Warbler.
There is a rufous tone to the upper tail area which lends itself to it being a Reed Warbler rather than a Marsh Warbler.

Mark.
 
Sorry, I don't know your other warblers, but body-tail proportion looks a little off-- body too big, tail too short-- for a Reed Warbler. ...That's all I got to say.
 
I tend to agree Pete, it looks like a Reed Warbler. I just have a few concerns though. It doesn't look quite 'warm' enough in the photo (and the rump colouration doesn't appear to be any stronger than the mantle), the primaries appear a little long and the choice of habitat is a little suspect seeing as there is a suitable reedbed in the vicinity. Given that both species are rare on the island, it may well be a Marsh Warbler. I'll try and get out there this afternoon and have a look.
 
I also have this picture, which at the time of taking I wasnt too sure if it was the same bird. As the wierd warbler kept doing a bit of singing then flying off and disappearing then 5 minutes later would reappear again.
But Ill post it just in case it is the same bird.
 

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The first picture is a classic 'acro' pose - the second makes it looks like a 'phylosc' - check that supercillium!! - and those legs!!! However I'll assume it's an 'acro' because the under tail coverts are way too long for anything else.
I fancy Marsh Warbler for the following reasons:
CJW has already pointed out the generally dull tones and concolourous rump- though light and the camera can alter things a little.
The leg colour - is paler than in Reed, which tends to be grey. Leg colour can be variable however, but not the claws which are always pale in Marsh and dark in Reed. In the second photo you can see one of the claws and it appears to be pale.
Again CJW has drawn attention to the habitat. I would have thought that if there were reeds nearby a Reed Warbler would be found there. I've often seen Reed Warbler in other habitats on passage but only when there is no suitable reed for them to use. Marsh Warbler on the other hand prefer areas with bushes.
If this is a bird on passage I would have thought that it is incredibly late for Reed Warbler - they have been in for at least a month and in most cases 2 months. Marsh Warbler on the other hand is a very late migrant - probably the last bird to arrive - The first two weeks in June being the best time to see them.

A good find though - whatever it is, especially as both are rare on the island.

Darrell
 
Good God! Now I'm really confused - that supercillium is all-wrong for Reed and Marsh, but the back is too plain for Sedge. The crown is too dark for any phyllosc I can think of (and the undertail coverts too long.) What HAVE you found?
 
I'll be down there within the hour. I'm completely stumped.
The rump, supercillium, dark crown (edges) and undertail remind me of Paddyfield, but the primaries are too long and the tail too short. I'll keep you all posted. I can see us ending-up on the old hybrid theory! Surely not!
 
I'm VERY intrigued, too. It does look like it is the same bird, but what is it?

With all the eastern birds that have turned up this spring (Black Lark, White-winged Tern, Terek Sand, Isabelline Shrike, etc) thoughts turned east to Paddyfield Warbler, but the primary projection is too long for that. Much too much of a supercilium and dark eye line for either Marsh or Reed. I also find myself unsure that it is an 'Acro' at all, as the tail looks rather square-ended, not rounded. Dusky or Radde's? Doesn't really look right for those, either. I'm baffled.

Can you get a detailed description, or even better, a tape, of the song?

Michael
 
One other (nasty!) thought . . . Reed x Sedge hybrids are known - that'll have to be considered too!

Michael

Added later - Whoops CJW, hadn't seen your last posting before mine were typed, looks like you beat me to it on the ideas!
 
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I'm afraid you might be right Michael! The photos show characters of both species. This is killing me - I can't get there before 11am at the earliest, so that is going to be one Hell of a hairy 7 mile journey!
 
Thank god you lot are baffled,
I am getting quite depressed at these wierd birds I can't identify.

If it wasnt for me girlfriend needing picking up from the airport
I could have got a stack more pictures too...... doh women!!!
 
Well I found the bird almost straight away. Obviously different song - basically like a sedge but with lots of mimicry (House Sparrow, Chaffinch, Swallow and Pied Wagtail). The bird was best described as having the body of a Reed Warbler and the head of a sedge warbler. But, as can be seen from the photo (terrible heathaze today), it had a really long bill.
I'm afraid I've got to go with it being a hybrid.
 

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Hi CJ,

Good you found it; does sound like a hybrid, but with all that mimicry, what chance Sedge x Marsh, rather than Sedge x Reed?

One can imagine a vagrant of Marsh (or Reed!) turning up last year, finding none the same, and pairing up with a local Sedge as a best available alternative. And this being the result.

Michael
 
Well done CJW at least you can rest a bit easier. Mimicry sounds like it has some marsh in it - what was it mimicking? I remember the first one i ever saw did a good Quail !!!

Darrell
 
I suppose Sedge x Marsh is a possibility, but I wouldn't like to call it! I'm certainly glad I didn't come across it as a non-singing juvenile last Autumn!
 
Hi Darrell,

CJW did say above: mimicking "(House Sparrow, Chaffinch, Swallow and Pied Wagtail)". Interestingly, all classic incorporations into Marsh Warbler song.

Michael
 
I've attached a montage of shots including the 3 posted here. If you want to see a larger size of this collection, let me know and I'll PM you with it.
 

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