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Small Buttonquail in Morocco (1 Viewer)

Hi, all the West Palaeartic populations are included in the nominate race sylvaticus (bigger and darker than subsaharan race lepurana).

At the moment is only confirmed in Morocco, but Spain and Algeria have the possibility of remanant populations. There are unconfirmed records in Spain in 2005 (Málaga) and 2002 and 2007 (Donana), but we have many work to do here, so any sight in Spain will be welcome to help in our job.

Carlos
 
carlines1969 said:
Hi, all the West Palaeartic populations are included in the nominate race sylvaticus (bigger and darker than subsaharan race lepurana).

At the moment is only confirmed in Morocco, but Spain and Algeria have the possibility of remanant populations. There are unconfirmed records in Spain in 2005 (Málaga) and 2002 and 2007 (Donana), but we have many work to do here, so any sight in Spain will be welcome to help in our job.

Carlos
Click to expand...

Good news that there is still a possibility of European birds. It would be a great shame to lose this species (and family) from Europe.

Ken
 
carlines1969 said:
Hi, all the West Palaeartic populations are included in the nominate race sylvaticus
Click to expand...

Well, I read that they are split, N African birds being paler.

About Spanish birds, I heard that despite many searches, no Spanish birder managed to find breeding site. If they make it, it would be great news!
 
KFC said:
Am I right in thinking that the small buttonquail of the Western Palearctic are a different taxa to those elsewhere in the world range? I also seem to remember that it was thought possible that Spanish Andalucian hemipode are/were a separate taxa again from the North African ones. Anyone know?
Click to expand...

jurek said:
Yes, indeed, both European and North African are two separate subspecies.

Under the current trend, somebody could easily split them. I am sure that DNA difference would be enough, given sedentary nature of buttonquails and large distance across the Sahara to the main population.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Actually a study by Pertoldi et al 2006, found that despite large phonotypical differences (biometrics and colour...) between the Andalusian hemipode (T. s. sylvaticus) and the Kurrichane buttonquail (T. s. lepurana) from sub-Saharan Africa, the genetic divergence in terms of cyt-b sequence are small (0.00–0.16%). They even proposed to repopulate southern Spain from sub-Saharan stock, but this is now older and the authors themselves stressed that this introduction is possible on condition that no wild birds of the Andalusian hemipode are still exist in its native range, this situation have already changed. I am not aware of any recent study.
 
Interesting! I didn't know that study. But a bit surprising, given that buttonquails are sedentary.
 
History, status and distribution of Andalusian Buttonquail in the WP

Gutiérrez Expósito C., Copete J.L., Crochet P.-A., Qninba A. & Garrido H. 2011. History, status and distribution of Andalusian Buttonquail in the WP. Dutch Birding 33 (2): 75-93. (Abstract in Dutch)

Song and video of Andalusian Buttonquail Turnix sylvaticus sylvaticus accompanying the paper above. Click on Extra’s to see the recordings

Song by Arnoud B van den Berg/The Sound Approach and video by José Manuel Sayago.

In hand photo of the species in this post (Photo by Mohamed Radi): http://moroccanbirds.blogspot.com/2011/04/history-status-and-distribution-of.html
 
I guess I should reply Lee, as your post was directed to me...

Many of the comments made subsequent to your post are basically attacking you because of the belief you will lead tours to see them, thus making cash out of privileged information which you expect us to supply to you, whilst causing repeated disturbance to the birds. Whether or not this is true, I can't comment but it is certainly a belief held by many, so perhaps you ought to try and change the reputation you seem to have? I don't know enough of you to comment further.

What is undoubtedly true is another comment made above. Those of us who saw them in 2008/9 were ENTRUSTED with the information on condition we didn't share it further. Would you expect us to betray that trust just so you can see them? What would that do for the reputations of the birders involved?

Stew
 
I have understood that there are grave concerns for eggers to get hold of the buttonquail sites. I think the exact locations are best kept a secret, even if it is indeed a rather public one.
Commercial bird tours, that cater for "unknown" individuals, should never search for the buttonquails, and I hope that those tour leaders that I know to have seen buttonquail take note.
 
Hi Lee

As you know, I haven't seen the birds, but was wondering where the site is going to be published in a forthcoming publication?

I realise it is a less than ideal situation with a small group of people having seen the birds and everyone else 'in the dark' as it were, but surely the conservation of the species should come first, and would that not be inhibited by the location becoming public knowledge, especially given how sensitive the species is, and that it would presumably require entering private fields to be seen? It would be a shame if the release of a very sensitive site was precipitated by (in the larger scheme of things) a petty squabble amongst twitchers/birders.

As i said, I don't know the details, and if it is the case that some august conservation body has decided that the best way of conserving the species is to make it public knowledge, then that's great, it will give me a chance to see a fantastic species in a great country. If it is a unilateral decision by upset individuals, that seems to be a very sad situation.

Would be great if you could enlighten me/us all to the situation.

Cheers

Ollie
 
A propos of comments on the taxonomy of this widely distributed species or species group, does anyone know of anyone working on their DNA? T. 'sylvatica' in the Philippines seems to be a forest dependent species and possibly limited by the distribution of cats and dogs.
Des
 
As far as I know, there has been no other genetic studies since that of Pertoldi et al (2006) quoted below (the link in the quote is dead):

Acrocephalus said:
Actually a study by Pertoldi et al 2006, found that despite large phonotypical differences (biometrics and colour...) between the Andalusian hemipode (T. s. sylvaticus) and the Kurrichane buttonquail (T. s. lepurana) from sub-Saharan Africa, the genetic divergence in terms of cyt-b sequence are small (0.00–0.16%). They even proposed to repopulate southern Spain from sub-Saharan stock, but this is now older and the authors themselves stressed that this introduction is possible on condition that no wild birds of the Andalusian hemipode are still exist in its native range, this situation have already changed. I am not aware of any recent study.
Click to expand...

Pertoldi, C., Negro, J.J., Muñoz, J., Barbanera, F. & Garrido, H. 2006. Introduction or reintroduction? Last resorts for the latest bird to become extinct in Europe, the Andalusian hemipode Turnix sylvatica sylvatica. Biodiversity & Conservation 15: 3895-3908.
 
Acrocephalus said:
As far as I know, there has been no other genetic studies since that of Pertoldi et al (2006) quoted below (the link in the quote is dead):



Pertoldi, C., Negro, J.J., Muñoz, J., Barbanera, F. & Garrido, H. 2006. Introduction or reintroduction? Last resorts for the latest bird to become extinct in Europe, the Andalusian hemipode Turnix sylvatica sylvatica. Biodiversity & Conservation 15: 3895-3908.
Click to expand...


Many thanks for this. I managed to find the article and will try to contact the authors...
Des
 
What happenened in this thread in 2011? There seems to be only a part of a discussion conserved? This Lee guy has deleted his posts or what? (I didn't even know that you can do it and imho it's a pretty bad forum design, it should say "here was a post that got later deleted" at least.)
 
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