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Renaming all North American Birds (1 Viewer)

3:) Indeed, I like your train of thought.

Some English names are crap I must admit - Hen Harrier - WFT is that all about? Maybe we could call it Persecuted Harrier?

As others have said, the name derives from a time when they were much commoner and would take domestic chickens, 'Hens'.
 
... propose changing Black-headed Gull to Laughing Gull (it would match the Latin name, at least) ...

I think it's time I bestow on this thread my favorite thing in bird nomenclature ever. I know I have probably posted it a few times already, but it's just too relevant. In Czech (I have not enough grasp of Latin, but I suspect at least some correlation) we have gull names "shifted by one". Have a look on the following list, in the format of "English translation of Czech name" - English name

"Atlantic Gull" - Laughing Gull
"Laughing Gull" - Black-headed Gull
"Black-headed Gull" - Mediterranean Gull
"Mediterranean Gull" - Yellow-legged Gull
"Yellow-legged Gull" - Lesser Black-backed Gull

If you ever see me addressing a Gull completely nonsensically, refer to this table and try "offset by 1" and see if it suddenly makes sense :)
 
From Polish names, we recently run into Zaganiac maly, (Booted Warbler), which is just incredibly funny - but I feel like it has to be funny even in Polish, no?

Yes, zaganiacz is quite a funny sounding word in Polish too. As for Czech, I'm pretty sure you are aware that for Polish speakers Czech language in general - not just bird names - sounds funny ;)
 
I would not object to changing antiquated words not used for more than a generation: ferruginous, demoiselle, pomarine, roseate, semipalmated, harlequin, razorbill. In 21. century a razor is shaped like a Gillette tip. And names which are wrong geographically: Caspian Tern, Sandwich Tern, Nashville Warbler, or wrong factually, e.g. Purple Sandpiper. And redundancies, e.g. Yellow-Crowned Night Heron or Great Gray Owl. There is no other yellow-crowned heron, or other owl named Gray or Great.

Another attempt to do the same thing from the Hawaii birdwatching group on facebook

Only few of the many Native languages are represented. A committee should be formed, and agree a parity together with representatives of Native Americans and Hawaiians. Afterwards the names can be changed. We don't want to offend some minority, do we?
 
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I would not object to changing antiquated words not used for more than a generation: ferruginous, demoiselle, pomarine, roseate, semipalmated, harlequin, razorbill. In 21. century a razor is shaped like a Gillette tip. And names which are wrong geographically: Caspian Tern, Sandwich Tern, Nashville Warbler, or wrong factually, e.g. Purple Sandpiper. And redundancies, e.g. Yellow-Crowned Night Heron or Great Gray Owl. There is no other yellow-crowned heron, or other owl named Gray or Great.
Caspian & Sandwich Terns both occur in respectively the Caspian Sea and at Sandwich in Kent, so they're not geographically wrong, just a bit limited in their scope. Dartford Warbler and Kentish Plover used to occur at their respective locations, but no longer do so - should the names be changed, or kept as a memorial to their extinct populations?

Purple Sandpiper does have slight purple iridescence in winter plumage, though it's hard to see. The one that badly needs reversing is 'Cinereous' Vulture (formerly Black Vulture) - whichever idiot renamed it (I think it was Sibley & Monroe) obviously hadn't realised that cinereous means ash-coloured, pale greyish white, completely wrong for Aegypius monachus.


And if you've ever been bitten by a Razorbill, you'll know how it got its name :-O (fortunately I haven't, but have heard about it from people ringing them :eek!:)
 
If you ever see me addressing a Gull completely nonsensically, refer to this table and try "offset by 1" and see if it suddenly makes sense

You mean writing on it upside-down in blue crayon whilst wearing a funny hat, putting the stamp on the bill and trying to post it to Gandhi c/o the North Pole?

Or lecturing it why it needs to go?

;)
 
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I would not object to changing antiquated words not used for more than a generation: ferruginous, demoiselle, pomarine, roseate, semipalmated, harlequin, razorbill. In 21. century a razor is shaped like a Gillette tip. And names which are wrong geographically: Caspian Tern, Sandwich Tern, Nashville Warbler, or wrong factually, e.g. Purple Sandpiper. And redundancies, e.g. Yellow-Crowned Night Heron or Great Gray Owl. There is no other yellow-crowned heron, or other owl named Gray or Great.

Only few of the many Native languages are represented. A committee should be formed, and agree a parity together with representatives of Native Americans and Hawaiians. Afterwards the names can be changed. We don't want to offend some minority, do we?

I think you're right. We should change most bird names every 20 years or so to reflect changing word use and range changes.

;)

But I actually think that (and was going to post earlier) a small selection of the 'dodgy' or worst current bird names could be renamed to commemorate famous indigenous people or native names if they are going to have to renamed. People wouldn't have to get their knickers in a twist for something like American Pipit being given a more exciting name. I'm sure there's scope for a Martin-Luther Kingbird somewhere along the line too ...

(Just had a terrible thought but Black-faced Bunting is another that is going to have to go.)
 
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I am in favor of changing Sandwich Tern, it always makes me hungry, which is not good for my body (only recently it doesn't matter as procuring a sandwich has become daunting due to corona). Martin-Luther Kingbird is gold, I am all for that! Maybe we can already silently assume that all Kingbirds are in his memory? It's like when the Czech people demanded the Charles Bridge in Prague to be renamed after a famous recently deceased signer, who happens to also be named Charles.

Did you know that Odyssey was not written by Homer, but by another blind Greek poet of the same name?
 
Are the same pressures being applied to the Dutch, German, Swedish lists?
The Dutch name for White-rumped Swift was changed recently. Look at the scientific name and you may guess why. I was attacked by some for suggesting this name needed changing at first, partly because many Dutch birders were not aware that this name was offensive.
No other name changes are being considered for birds. I don't think that there are any in the Western Palearctic that are problematic from my point of view. Radicals could demand more changes (we have quite a few birdnames ending in "thief" which one could take umbrage with).
There are a few species in other groups (grasshoppers, dragonflies, plants) which have been changed or could do with being changed.

In Germany it was proposed to change the name for Black Lark from the equivalent of "Moor Lark" ("Moor" as in "African", not as in "heath") to "Black Steppe Lark". I don't think this is a particularly offensive name anyway, just old-fashioned, but the change is an improvement. Unfortunately, it was embedded in a large amount of really unnecessary modifications, so I am not sure if this has been picked up yet (not on wikipedia anyway).

I think the English name for the butterfly Orsotriaena medus needs rethinking as well!
 
The Dutch name for White-rumped Swift was changed recently. Look at the scientific name and you may guess why. I was attacked by some for suggesting this name needed changing at first, partly because many Dutch birders were not aware that this name was offensive.
No other name changes are being considered for birds. I don't think that there are any in the Western Palearctic that are problematic from my point of view. Radicals could demand more changes (we have quite a few birdnames ending in "thief" which one could take umbrage with).
There are a few species in other groups (grasshoppers, dragonflies, plants) which have been changed or could do with being changed.

In Germany it was proposed to change the name for Black Lark from the equivalent of "Moor Lark" ("Moor" as in "African", not as in "heath") to "Black Steppe Lark". I don't think this is a particularly offensive name anyway, just old-fashioned, but the change is an improvement. Unfortunately, it was embedded in a large amount of really unnecessary modifications, so I am not sure if this has been picked up yet (not on wikipedia anyway).

I think the English name for the butterfly Orsotriaena medus needs rethinking as well!


I was already aware of this species through an old book on the butterflies of Bali, I did a quick Google and the common name is no longer applied in any of the subsequent results.

For anyone curious, the common name was simply 'N*****'

Back to bird names, why does the 'English' list, simply not apply a translation of any indiginous name instead of going the whole hog and using the native language, the Germans do it to a large extent I'm told.

If the trend for using foreign words continues unabated, using what has been until now a relatively small number of existing names as a justification, the use of the word 'English' in the list of World bird species, would seem to me, to be no longer accurate.
 
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As someone who’s still using fan-tailed warbler, there’s no hope,is there ? I’m suspicious that all this is being instigated by some publishers who are desperate to sell all of us a whole raft of new field guides with the new names.
 
As someone who’s still using fan-tailed warbler, there’s no hope,is there ? I’m suspicious that all this is being instigated by some publishers who are desperate to sell all of us a whole raft of new field guides with the new names.

You're not alone in this, it's an opinion which has been expressed in the past.
 
If the trend for using foreign words continues unabated, using what has been until now a relatively small number of existing names as a justification, the use of the word 'English' in the list of World bird species, would seem to me, to be no longer accurate.

Not forgetting that the English language has absorbed and appropriated most (all?) of its words from elsewhere.

As someone who’s still using fan-tailed warbler, there’s no hope,is there ?

+1 for Fan-tailed Warbler! I'd resisted posting on that one so far.

I think there's a balance between things that need to be changed (not many), and unnecessary changes. I still want to use Dabchick sometimes.
 
I was already aware of this species through an old book on the butterflies of Bali, I did a quick Google and the common name is no longer applied in any of the subsequent results.
I found plenty of results throughout SE Asia, but maybe google is blocking them in English-speaking countries.
 
As a fun exercise it's entertaining, but I can't tell how much of this is meant to be serious and how much of this is just people having a laugh. Certainly the getting rid of patronyms seems to be a serious intent by folks
 
I would not object to changing antiquated words not used for more than a generation: ferruginous, demoiselle, pomarine, roseate, semipalmated, harlequin, razorbill. In 21. century a razor is shaped like a Gillette tip. And names which are wrong geographically: Caspian Tern, Sandwich Tern, Nashville Warbler, or wrong factually, e.g. Purple Sandpiper. And redundancies, e.g. Yellow-Crowned Night Heron or Great Gray Owl. There is no other yellow-crowned heron, or other owl named Gray or Great.

I like a lot of these names, as they are unique and memorable.

Also, I doubt anyone my age or younger would consider Harlequin obscure nowadays, thanks to DC comics.
 
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