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Ultravid 7x/8x 42 pre-HD, HD, HDplus transmission figures (1 Viewer)

Andreas

To help us understand what you see are we correct that you mean any green parts in the view seem 'stronger' than other colours and that you do not mean that the whole image looks a little green?

Lee

Hi Lee,

I'm sorry, my mistake.
I see the whole view in the SF a bit greener, not just the green parts.
The SF has a clear green tone for me.

Andreas
 
Hi Lee,

I'm sorry, my mistake.
I see the whole view in the SF a bit greener, not just the green parts.
The SF has a clear green tone for me.

Andreas

Thank you for clarifying. You can imagine how puzzling this is for those who do not see this.

Lee
 
Additive ...
When I got the SF in January, here in our region was a very foggy day, as I looked through the SF in the fog, the picture was not gray but slightly greenish!
With the Swarovski 8,5x42 I could not perceive this effect.

Andreas
 
Additive ...
When I got the SF in January, here in our region was a very foggy day, as I looked through the SF in the fog, the picture was not gray but slightly greenish!
With the Swarovski 8,5x42 I could not perceive this effect.

Andreas

We were recently on holiday on Ardnamurchan in Scotland and for two days there was a thick haar (sea-fog) which was so bad that some ferry ships were unable to sail. I spent hours using my SFs and other binos from Meopta and Opticron and did not see any green colour in the fog when using the SFs.

Lee
 
We were recently on holiday on Ardnamurchan in Scotland and for two days there was a thick haar (sea-fog) which was so bad that some ferry ships were unable to sail. I spent hours using my SFs and other binos from Meopta and Opticron and did not see any green colour in the fog when using the SFs.

Lee

Lee, does this mystery mean that to some users the colour rendering of say the HT and SF is the same (e.g. in your own experience - because I don't know if colours are ever identical between different models) while to others the HT has no cast but the SF does? Is there any way that sample variation or differences between production batches of the same model can apply to a glass's colour signature? Would Professor van Ginkel's tests have been carried out on more than one unit?

Tom
 
Lee, does this mystery mean that to some users the colour rendering of say the HT and SF is the same (e.g. in your own experience - because I don't know if colours are ever identical between different models) while to others the HT has no cast but the SF does? Is there any way that sample variation or differences between production batches of the same model can apply to a glass's colour signature? Would Professor van Ginkel's tests have been carried out on more than one unit?

Tom

Tom

To me HT looks a tiny bit warmer (think Autumn) where to me SF looks a wee bit cleaner (think Spring) but we are getting into the realms of such subtleties here that we will end up describing binos in pretentious 'wine-critic' language if we are not careful.

I have no idea how many SFs Prof van Ginkel has tested or looked through but he has posted on here many times about his opinion on this subject.

As to whether a batch-specific issue could be behind this small phenomenon, I have no idea.

I think maybe 6 people might have posted that they have had something like this experience in the past 3 years or so, but sometimes it is hard to tell whether they simply mean that greens (if present) are brighter than expected or whether they mean there is a green 'mist' over the whole image.

I have looked through many SFs in dealers, at Bird Fair, at the Zeiss factory and haven't seen this effect.

Lee
 
Just the opposite for me - the SF warm, the HT cooler, cleaner.

And, just to add to the conundrum, when I use a Swaro SV 8.5 in winter, I see an obvious blue tint, invisible most any other time of year however.
 
In what I say at post #52 above I think
I should also stress the words average out!

On emphasis vs cast of some color
--in some make/model, in the perception of some user--
I do not know enough to comment,
as I indicate also in my post #46 above.
 
Prof. Gijs van Ginkel who has measured the light transmission of SF (and whose test results have been verified by the major European brands) has stated several times on Bird Forum that his results do not support the perception of such a cast. It therefore seems likely this perception stems from the observer's personal colour 'processing'.

Lee

I should point out a couple of things. All the transmission data from manufacturers I've seen covers the full visible spectrum from 380nm to 780nm not the partial spectum Gijs records. Even within that region his report from May 2017 shows that the SF has a lower transmission at the shorter and longer wavelengths than it is in the middle which means that binocular has a colour bias. How that is perceived will depend on an individuals genetics and physiology, but also psycology and other factors, but this result is totally consistent with the green colour cast reported by many users. The word cast is used quite correctly in this context.

David
 
I should point out a couple of things. All the transmission data from manufacturers I've seen covers the full visible spectrum from 380nm to 780nm not the partial spectum Gijs records. Even within that region his report from May 2017 shows that the SF has a lower transmission at the shorter and longer wavelengths than it is in the middle which means that binocular has a colour bias. How that is perceived will depend on an individuals genetics and physiology, but also psycology and other factors, but this result is totally consistent with the green colour cast reported by many users. The word cast is used quite correctly in this context.

David

Gijs clearly interprets his test results differently.

Lee
 
Indeed although I was referring to his interpretation of his own test results.

Isn't the human eye most sensitive to light at 555nm? It is quite possible, or even likely, that some eyes are more sensitive than others at this point in the spectrum.

Lee
 
Gijs' result is crystal clear. The only question at issue is the perceptual interpretation.

Yes, individuals vary significantly in their spectral sensitivity and colour discrimination. Genetic, gender, age, developmental biology, physiology, and psychology are just some of the factors involved. The SF may have a spectral green bias, but it doesn't mean everyone will perceive it as a colour cast.

David
 
I am in agreeance with David here - the transmission data of the SF and it's drop off at either end of the spectrum (moreso the blues) corresponds precisely with what I see - a "green ham" colour cast. ie. that cast (or wash if you like) distorts (we're talking ever so slightly here) the true colour of all colours.

I get similar corresponding impressions when looking at the individual casts of the Conquest HD, Leica UV, Nikon EDG etc ....

I have mentioned before that I am very sensitive to colour changes, formerly being a part of the exucutive responsible for signing off on such decisions for our products (widely accepted and highly regarded as 'life like' within the industry and by consumers). I mention that because my eyes have probably been trained to recognize minute differences and my neural pathways reinforced (turbocharged ;) ) accordingly.

Add that to my 'David Bowie' eyes and no doubt others mileage will vary ..... :cat:

The subject of this thread, the UVHD+ looks more neutral to me than the prior UVHD ....




Chosun :gh:
 
CJ,

One of the intriguing aspects of my browsing on colour perception is the role of a common amino acid substitution in the L-opsin pigment of the long wavelength (red) receptor. The gene for it is carried on the x-chromosome. The two variants have slightly different absorbance profiles and therefore sensitivities. It means women have two copies and men only one. There is some conflicting data on what this means for colour perception, but at least some experimental designs show that women who have both gene variants have better colour discrimination in certain parts of the spectrum. ;)

David
 
I definitely perceive the slight green colour cast or bias on the SF, it was quite noticeable coming straight after the more neutral bluish HT. Strangely though I don't find it objectionable at all, I found the HT almost too bright and a little straining on the eyes on occasions.
I suspect that if the ultravid hd+ colours were transplanted into the view of the SF though I would like it even more.
 
David, others: Human spectral sensitivity, as I gather, is maximum about green, ranging from being max. at green-yellow in daylight to max. at blue-green at night. Until a couple years ago much was said in this forum about "brightess washout" in the Zeiss FL 7x42, vs the Leica Uv. 7x42, and by itself. Can a green emphasis in its transmission cause that, or conversely, can that arise from whatever other reason and cause a green cast? Thanks! If the question is not structured logically or is trivial please ignore.
 
Tom,

Three highly subjective points of comparison -
1. I have both 7X and 8X UV HD+, and I can detect no differences between them in terms of sharpness, glare/flare control, etc. Both are superb instruments, in my opinion.
2. I also have a late Dialyt 7X42 T*P*, and while I feel it can still compete with the best, I find that either HD+ can pull just a bit more detail out of the shadows.
3. It was a direct comparison between the HD+, SF, HT, and Dialyt some time ago that convinced me to buy the Leica, primarily because of its ability to work the shadows.

Curiosity question: Have you tried another example of the 8X42 HD for comparison to yours?

John

John,

Do you have a link to that review by any chance? Or was it your own comparison?

I have to say I'm happy again with my UVHD 8x42 - and it handles like a dream.

Tom
 
David, others: Human spectral sensitivity, as I gather, is maximum about green, ranging from being max. at green-yellow in daylight to max. at blue-green at night. Until a couple years ago much was said in this forum about "brightess washout" in the Zeiss FL 7x42, vs the Leica Uv. 7x42, and by itself. Can a green emphasis in its transmission cause that, or conversely, can that arise from whatever other reason and cause a green cast? Thanks! If the question is not structured logically or is trivial please ignore.

I've not see the "brightness washout" you refer to in the limited time I've used the various FLs models, so can't really say. There have been other comments on colour too where individuals described the cast as anything between steely blue and red, which takes some understanding as well. Seems perception is a fickle beast. ;)

David
 
Or was it your own comparison?

Tom,

It was my own comparison, conducted over the space of a couple hours at the Cape May Bird Observatory's optical shop. The shop faces Lake Lily, a 13-acre freshwater pond surrounded by varied vegetation; I would take two binos at a time and step outside and scan the far shore, looking for resolution in the foliage and detail in the shadows.

John
 
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