Farnboro John
Well-known member
Hi Jos,
Thank you for the debating points.
I don't think there is a real contradiction between saying eagles are prevented from leaving Scotland southwards and that starting new projects elsewhere should not happen. I think the elimination of the problem is the next essential conservation action, not least because we know from the Hen Harrier that raptor persecution is already worse in England than in Scotland - though presumed to be regional, this means that heavily predatory raptors in England are at serious threat. One can argue that the rise of the Red Kite and the state of the Buzzard population deny this, but kites are understood by all to be essentially scavengers and Buzzards are under legal as well as illegal threat currently with licenses for their destruction being issued: one can safely assume this means someone is prepared to destroy them without moral scruple, so what price bigger raptors capable of taking bigger prey?
When I mentioned Goshawks it was specifically to emphasise that although they are common in the New Forest and have been so for years, this has not translated to a healthy population across Hampshire. If I go to the New Forest to look for Goshawk in suitable weather it will take me no more than an hour to see one. Where I live and spend most of my birding time - a lot of which is looking at the sky for raptors - I have not seen one for years: I am aware of just one pair within a ten mile radius of my home. This can only be because they are being specifically prevented from expanding across the county, which argues not only knowledge but the skills to identify and target them among the game-farming community and that they are actually doing so. Its a point I was also making in relation to Peregrines. They ought not to be confined to urban areas but as breeders they mostly seem to be.
My main issue with the current project is the likely welfare of the birds, including their ability to find nesting territories: and I don't believe there are enough safe areas in the South of England at present based on what is happening to other raptors. My other issue, like several other people, is that given the overall state of British raptors, every spare penny of raptor conservation funds is needed for Hen Harriers, not White-tailed Eagles.
Our Southern England harrier roosts are now tiny compared to what they were when I took up birding. Some have disappeared altogether. This must be because the source of Southern Britain winter birds was not principally the Continent but actually the native population that has been near-extinguished. This is the main crisis and this is the Southern Britain raptor spectacle that needs aid: but the aid is needed in the breeding areas, not in the South. A potential Northern powerhouse is being underfunded for a Southern vanity project. Sound familiar?
John
Thank you for the debating points.
I don't think there is a real contradiction between saying eagles are prevented from leaving Scotland southwards and that starting new projects elsewhere should not happen. I think the elimination of the problem is the next essential conservation action, not least because we know from the Hen Harrier that raptor persecution is already worse in England than in Scotland - though presumed to be regional, this means that heavily predatory raptors in England are at serious threat. One can argue that the rise of the Red Kite and the state of the Buzzard population deny this, but kites are understood by all to be essentially scavengers and Buzzards are under legal as well as illegal threat currently with licenses for their destruction being issued: one can safely assume this means someone is prepared to destroy them without moral scruple, so what price bigger raptors capable of taking bigger prey?
When I mentioned Goshawks it was specifically to emphasise that although they are common in the New Forest and have been so for years, this has not translated to a healthy population across Hampshire. If I go to the New Forest to look for Goshawk in suitable weather it will take me no more than an hour to see one. Where I live and spend most of my birding time - a lot of which is looking at the sky for raptors - I have not seen one for years: I am aware of just one pair within a ten mile radius of my home. This can only be because they are being specifically prevented from expanding across the county, which argues not only knowledge but the skills to identify and target them among the game-farming community and that they are actually doing so. Its a point I was also making in relation to Peregrines. They ought not to be confined to urban areas but as breeders they mostly seem to be.
My main issue with the current project is the likely welfare of the birds, including their ability to find nesting territories: and I don't believe there are enough safe areas in the South of England at present based on what is happening to other raptors. My other issue, like several other people, is that given the overall state of British raptors, every spare penny of raptor conservation funds is needed for Hen Harriers, not White-tailed Eagles.
Our Southern England harrier roosts are now tiny compared to what they were when I took up birding. Some have disappeared altogether. This must be because the source of Southern Britain winter birds was not principally the Continent but actually the native population that has been near-extinguished. This is the main crisis and this is the Southern Britain raptor spectacle that needs aid: but the aid is needed in the breeding areas, not in the South. A potential Northern powerhouse is being underfunded for a Southern vanity project. Sound familiar?
John