Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
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Diver kills Bald Eagle (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Andy Adcock
- Start date
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
When I saw the title, I thought it was about a human scuba diver killing the eagle. Pleased (and fascinated) to see it wasn't.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
If I used the word Loon which can mean lunatic or idiot here, that would arouse the same thoughts in some on this side. Etymolgy of the name is from lunatic I think, from it's eerie call, when does the name first appear?
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This from the on-line etymology dictionary—
“loon (n.1)
large diving bird (especially the Great Northern Diver), 1630s, apparently an alteration of loom in this sense, which is from a Scandinavian source (compare Norwegian lom, from Old Norse lomr "loon")“.
The “lunatic” derivation is evidently just folk etymology.
“loon (n.1)
large diving bird (especially the Great Northern Diver), 1630s, apparently an alteration of loom in this sense, which is from a Scandinavian source (compare Norwegian lom, from Old Norse lomr "loon")“.
The “lunatic” derivation is evidently just folk etymology.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Hah,
I'd definitely have lost money on that but 'loom', possibly from the neck pattern of summer plumaged birds that look like a weaved fabric?
Probably adopted in to everyday American by Scandinavian settlers?
Hi Fugl,
I'm not entirely sure of that ... in German too, there are seabird names translating to "fool" and ""clod" or suchlike.
Regards,
Henning
I'm not entirely sure of that ... in German too, there are seabird names translating to "fool" and ""clod" or suchlike.
Regards,
Henning
Indeed, and assuming "loon" is an English example of the same phenomenon based on such reasoning alone is a prime example of folk etymology, a "Just So story" for word origins. As it happens English has such names also (e.g., "booby") but according to the linguists "loon" isn't one of them. The following is from the OED, the single most authoritative source for the etymology of English words.
"[1678 Ray Willughby's Ornith. 343 It is common among the Norwegians and Islanders, who in their own Country Language call it Lumme.] 1694 Narborough, etc. Voy. ii. 80 The Lumb+is quite black at the top, but underneath his belly even to the neck, he is snow-white. 1755 T. Amory Mem. (1769) I. 129 On the water, near the rocks, there were thousands of lummes and razor-bills. 1772–84 Cook Voy. (1790) V. 1761 The greater lumme, or diver, found in the northern parts of Europe. 1835 Sir J. Ross Narr. 2nd Voy. iv. 51 We saw a few looms and shear-waters. 1876 Davis Polaris Exped. xvi. 391 One lumne. 1886 A. W. Greely Arctic Service I. 49 On the face of these sea-ledges of Arveprins Island Bruennich's guillemots, or looms, gather in the breeding season+by tens of thousands."
According to the same source, such expressions as "crazy as a loon" (based on the "wild call") are secondary with nothing at all to do with the etymology.
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Hi Fugl,
Ah, highly interesting - thanks a lot!
So the pattern of giving unflattering names to sea birds met the phonetic similarity of "Lumme" and "loon" ...
In German, there's the "Trottellumme" (Uria aalge), which translates to "clod loon". While the unflattering "Trottel" might be a folk etymology derivation of the original Swedish "Troil", Wember in "Die Namen der Vögel Europas" notes that there was a concurrent German name of "Dumme Lumme" - "stupid loon".
Regards,
Henning
Ah, highly interesting - thanks a lot!
So the pattern of giving unflattering names to sea birds met the phonetic similarity of "Lumme" and "loon" ...In German, there's the "Trottellumme" (Uria aalge), which translates to "clod loon". While the unflattering "Trottel" might be a folk etymology derivation of the original Swedish "Troil", Wember in "Die Namen der Vögel Europas" notes that there was a concurrent German name of "Dumme Lumme" - "stupid loon".
Regards,
Henning
If 'loon' does derive from old Norse it is odd that it wasn't adopted in what is now the United Kingdom. Norse Vikings settled the east of England not to mention the northern isles. They left us a legacy of words and names such as gat/gatan appearing as 'gate' on several streets in York where there are no gates, and fors meaning a waterfall appearing as 'force' as in High Force on Teeside. I also noticed when I worked for a Swedish company that their name for baby is ban which not far from the use of 'bairn' in the north-east of England. There are many examples of place names deriving from Viking times too such as names ending -by, like Whitby, and Selby not to mention those ending in -thorpe.
So I wonder why 'loon' wasn't adopted here?
Lee
So I wonder why 'loon' wasn't adopted here?
Lee
But it was adopted in the UK (as per the OED references in my previous post) but then dropped out of use there in favor of "diver". It was (presumably) introduced to the states by British immigrants in the colonial period where it persisted. There's no obvious logic to this, by the way; it's just how the historical cookie appears to have crumbled
The OED doesn't provides specific references for "diver" in the sense of "loon" but a timeline gives "c.1510" as its first appearance in written English as a name for loons and various other diving birds.
Interesting stuff, the Scandinavian influence on British place names and on the language generally ('kn" words like "knife" and "knave", for example). Didn't know about the fors/force connection before.. ..
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RafaelMatias
Unknown member
As well as "Booby", coming from bobo (fool) in Portuguese (I believe); also it's one of the explanations for the etymology of Dodo (doido: crazy, fool, in Portuguese, as these birds were killed very easily, offering no resistance).
It just so happens I worked for a Swedish company that took its name from the village where it was based and that was Forsheda and the Fors bit referred to the waterfall nearby.
Lee
Had to be something like that. If the loon resurfaced to one side of the down-rushing eagle it could have quickly jabbed in and out with minimal danger to itself. Just its good luck—and the eagle’s bad—that it hit a vital spot.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Maybe if the Eagle was partly on or in water, preoccupied with the young bird, the Diver just paddled, and jabbed, instinctively and got lucky?
