Car park charge starting for non members of the RSPB reserve of Snettisham in May. (1 Viewer)

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 17, 2018

There is going to be a car park charge for non members of the RSPB reserve Snettisham of approx £2.00 from the beginning of May, of which there are no admission fees at present. The RSPB are starting to charge a car park fee as well for non members at a number of other reserves in the next few months as well of which there are no admission fees at present. I’m pleased the RSPB are starting to charge at more RSPB reserves where there are no admission fees to non members at present. Details in the reserve section of the RSPB website.
Ian.

Original PaulE · Mar 18, 2018

IAN JAMES THOMPSON said:
There is going to be a car park charge for non members of the RSPB reserve Snettisham of approx £2.00 from the beginning of May, of which there are no admission fees at present. The RSPB are starting to charge a car park fee as well for non members at a number of other reserves in the next few months as well of which there are no admission fees at present. I’m pleased the RSPB are starting to charge at more RSPB reserves where there are no admission fees to non members at present. Details in the reserve section of the RSPB website.
Ian.

Presume members will leave their card on dashboard such as at Titchwell now? Not been to Snettisham does it have a visitor center? Suppose it will be a machine if not.
Like you i think this is a good way of raising funds and is in line with what councils etc do.

Phil Andrews · Mar 18, 2018

I think there is a difference about charging for car parks that may be used by non visitors and actually paying to get into a reserve. Where else is proposing to charge?

And is it just a hollow gesture - has the RSPB ever actually enforced such parking charges?

DaveN · Mar 18, 2018

Original PaulE said:
Not been to Snettisham does it have a visitor center? Suppose it will be a machine if not.

No there isn't a visitor centre at Snettisham.

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 18, 2018

Phil Andrews said:
I think there is a difference about charging for car parks that may be used by non visitors and actually paying to get into a reserve. Where else is proposing to charge?

And is it just a hollow gesture - has the RSPB ever actually enforced such parking charges?

There are a number of RSPB reserves going to charge with car park fees. Can’t remember them. But I saw those other reserves on the list of reserves on the RSPB website.
Ian.

BimmyB · Mar 18, 2018

I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays (which is often all you need there) or Up to 4 hours.

As I've mentioned on another thread the RSPB is trying to save in the region of £10M this year, so I guess charging in all car parks is another way of making some extra revenue. I notice too that at this late date in the season there have been very few temporary summer posts advertised, another means of saving money for them, but sadly not delivering to the same standard as previous years.

Jos Stratford · Mar 18, 2018

BimmyB said:
I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays.

Three hours is free

If you decided to make an issue of it, you might win legally - there is an obligation to ensure pricing is clear, regardless of whether you are a shop or other.

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 18, 2018

BimmyB said:
I wonder if it will have the same daft pricing scale as Arne: UP TO 2 hours = x-amount, OVER 4 hours = higher x-amount, and no middle ground charge for three hour stays (which is often all you need there) or Up to 4 hours.

As I've mentioned on another thread the RSPB is trying to save in the region of £10M this year, so I guess charging in all car parks is another way of making some extra revenue. I notice too that at this late date in the season there have been very few temporary summer posts advertised, another means of saving money for them, but sadly not delivering to the same standard as previous years.

They aren’t charging any admission or car parking charges still at the majority of reserves. Probably those reserves with no admission or car parking charges are the less popular reserves.
Ian.

Farnboro John · Mar 18, 2018

Jos Stratford said:
Three hours is free

If you decided to make an issue of it, you might win legally - there is an obligation to ensure pricing is clear, regardless of whether you are a shop or other.

Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on, though good luck with that; but if in doubt I should use the principle of buyer beware. There are shops that don't display prices on goods at all - more expensive jewellers are a good example: if you have to ask, you can't afford it!

Of course, if you are a member of the RSPB, no charge......

John

Jos Stratford · Mar 18, 2018

Farnboro John said:
Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on

Agreed, though even in the situation you mention, incorrect pricing would be illegal if it is deemed intentionally misleading (not sure how you would prove this though).

However, in this parking case, it is a different issue - for most products, it is a legal requirement to clearly display pricing information, inclusive of tax, etc.

With the parking (I only presume here this is the same as for retail products, maybe not), the issue is they do not specify a charge for three hours - they do clearly state you must pay for less than 2 hours and do clearly state you must pay for over 4 hours - I do not know if they could legally force you to pay for something (a three hour stay) which they do not specify is payable, even less say how much it should be. They have the legal obligation to state it, not the consumer to guess it.

Better though, just join the RSPB and pay nowt to start with.

Hopefully, the car parks that start charging will allow members of the public to redeem their parking fee at the visitor centre if they join the RSPB - seems a pretty good way to encourage a few more persons to join.

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 18, 2018

Jos Stratford said:
Agreed, though even in the situation you mention, incorrect pricing would be illegal if it is deemed intentionally misleading (not sure how you would prove this though).

However, in this parking case, it is a different issue - for most products, it is a legal requirement to clearly display pricing information, inclusive of tax, etc.

With the parking (I only presume here this is the same as for retail products, maybe not), the issue is they do not specify a charge for three hours - they do clearly state you must pay for less than 2 hours and do clearly state you must pay for over 4 hours - I do not know if they could legally force you to pay for something (a three hour stay) which they do not specify is payable, even less say how much it should be. They have the legal obligation to state it, not the consumer to guess it.

Better though, just join the RSPB and pay nowt to start with.

Hopefully, the car parks that start charging will allow members of the public to redeem their parking fee at the visitor centre if they join the RSPB - seems a pretty good way to encourage a few more persons to join.

I’ve just checked the latest charges for the Arne car park for non members of the RSPB and it seems there is just 1 price for cars in the Arne car park for non members now, for however long you stay at Arne and that now appears to be £5.00. I think that is an increase as well for parking all day at Arne. Actually I have noticed as well there is a slight increase in admission charges at a number of RSPB reserves where they charge for each individual who is not a member of the RSPB as well as those reserves that charge a car park fee.
Ian.
Ian.

pppppvvvv · Mar 18, 2018

Free for Caravan and Motorhome club members as well, (assuming your Winnebago will fit through the entrance gate).

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 27, 2018

There seems to be a number of RSPB reserves as well increasing there car park fees as well for non members. For example The Lodge reserve is increasing its car park fee for non members from April 1st and the car park charge will be increasing from £5.00 to £6.00 per car for non members.
Ian.

rosbifs · Mar 28, 2018

Farnboro John said:
Actually, the legal position is that even a shop price is simply an invitation to treat: i.e. even with a price displayed, you can ask for a discount and so on, though good luck with that; but if in doubt I should use the principle of buyer beware. There are shops that don't display prices on goods at all - more expensive jewellers are a good example: if you have to ask, you can't afford it!

Of course, if you are a member of the RSPB, no charge......

John

In the offer and acceptance in U.K law the offer is made by the buyer - the seller or shop can then accept that offer or not. You take a radio to the counter with a ticket price of 10£ you can offer what you like - the shop can then agree or not to that offer.

If there was a ticket error the shop can decline. If however it was plastered all over the shop window at a price the shop would find it difficult to argue there was an error...

In France I think the offer acceptance is the other way round in the ticket price is the offer and can be enforced...

PYRTLE · Mar 29, 2018

All this discussion seems rather pointless to me. A non member is using a facility that is owned and maintained by the owner, usually on private land. If they don't want to pay a charge for that advantageous parking then they can decline and go elsewhere or become a member and benefit - helping conservation or the charity is secondary. I encountered dozens of NWT members who only wanted to use the car park at Holme Dunes for access to the beach during summer. Inevitably they screeched up in a people carrier and emptied out half a dozen occupants plus picnic paraphernalia.....not interested in the nature reserve. Same at Cley Beach car park. Fees were no different to those charged by the various council owned and private land owners all along the North Norfolk coast.
Seems fair to me ( as member of both RSPB and NWT).

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Mar 29, 2018

PYRTLE said:
All this discussion seems rather pointless to me. A non member is using a facility that is owned and maintained by the owner, usually on private land. If they don't want to pay a charge for that advantageous parking then they can decline and go elsewhere or become a member and benefit - helping conservation or the charity is secondary. I encountered dozens of NWT members who only wanted to use the car park at Holme Dunes for access to the beach during summer. Inevitably they screeched up in a people carrier and emptied out half a dozen occupants plus picnic paraphernalia.....not interested in the nature reserve. Same at Cley Beach car park. Fees were no different to those charged by the various council owned and private land owners all along the North Norfolk coast.
Seems fair to me ( as member of both RSPB and NWT).

If you see my first post on this thread which I started I agree with the RSPB on the subject of this thread. And I’m a member of about 6 wildlife conservation organisations, including the RSPB and my local county trust, as well as an active member of my RSPB Local Group. I think it’s an interesting subject to discuss.
Ian.

Steve Lister · Apr 22, 2018

The RSPB is clearly trying to increase the revenue from its reserves. I visited Frampton Marsh yesterday for the first time this year to find that non-members are now asked to pay £2 for access. It used to be free access and a voluntary £2 carpark charge.
The nearby Freiston Shore RSPB reserve has a sign warning that the free carpark will be £2 from early June - it has been put back from the start of April for some reason. Apparently there will be a ticket machine installed: non-members will pay £2 but members will be asked to press a button for a free ticket that they will then have to display along with their membership card. This is in a carpark where there have been a few break-ins in recent years. I am not keen to label my car as a birder's vehicle and so invite those so inclined to smash my rear window - maybe safer to buy a £2 ticket and pretend it is a dog-walker's car: there are about ten times as many dog-walkers as birders there. Maybe the RSPB have sussed that out.

Steve

Bubbs · Apr 22, 2018

What happens if you fail to pay the parking charge?

PYRTLE · Apr 23, 2018

Bubbs said:
What happens if you fail to pay the parking charge?

I remember that any offending vehicle received some form of polite notice reminder under the front windscreen wiper to obtain a ticket. Personally I cannot envisage the RSPB enforcing this policy via any legal system through to presenting a case before a local magistrate. It would be costly and bad p.r. which other organisations avoid, rather they rely on goodwill even for persistent offenders. Working on the premise that the majority will purchase said ticket - not sure how this increased revenue would or could be treated....eg, ploughed in centrally to The Lodge coffers or used by the charging reserve directly towards site maintenance or conservation management.
Why not try it Bubbs, even if you are a member, and let us know?
Pat (currently exiled in Berkshire).

IAN JAMES THOMPSON · Apr 23, 2018

Steve Lister said:
The RSPB is clearly trying to increase the revenue from its reserves. I visited Frampton Marsh yesterday for the first time this year to find that non-members are now asked to pay £2 for access. It used to be free access and a voluntary £2 carpark charge.
The nearby Freiston Shore RSPB reserve has a sign warning that the free carpark will be £2 from early June - it has been put back from the start of April for some reason. Apparently there will be a ticket machine installed: non-members will pay £2 but members will be asked to press a button for a free ticket that they will then have to display along with their membership card. This is in a carpark where there have been a few break-ins in recent years. I am not keen to label my car as a birder's vehicle and so invite those so inclined to smash my rear window - maybe safer to buy a £2 ticket and pretend it is a dog-walker's car: there are about ten times as many dog-walkers as birders there. Maybe the RSPB have sussed that out.

Steve

I’ve been checking the list of RSPB reserves on the RSPB website and the RSPB have or are about to start charging at a small number of RSPB reserves for non members of the RSPB where there hasn’t been a car park charge for non members before.
In another thread I started, I mentioned that the RSPB want to start charging a car parking fee of £5.00 for non members of the RSPB at South Stack Cliffs reserve, when there has never been a car parking charge before. But the local public have been up in arms about this. The RSPB are trying to get planning permission to do this from the Local Authority as South Stack Cliffs is leased to the RSPB from the local council.
Ian.

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