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UK Duck ID Help required (1 Viewer)

robski said:
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/129532/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

A shot posted in the gallery which seems to be a bit of a puzzle.

A diving duck seen with a small group of tuffies on a gravel pit lake in Kent.

Many thanks Rob
Click to expand...

I'd have a punt at Mallard x Pochard; the v fine grey vermiculations and black in the bill seem to ghost the latter species. The baikal teal vertical line on the face is a recessive character which sometimes pops up in hybrid ducks (e.g teal x pintail..)

Alan
 
lewis20126 said:
I'd have a punt at Mallard x Pochard; the v fine grey vermiculations and black in the bill seem to ghost the latter species. The baikal teal vertical line on the face is a recessive character which sometimes pops up in hybrid ducks (e.g teal x pintail..)

Alan
Click to expand...

Nice detective work, Alan. I'll buy that. I was getting hung up on Tufty and worrying about Gadwall but your idea fits much better. Hopefully Joern will be along soon to confirm. Whatever it is, it is definitely a hybrid between a dabbler with a speculum and an aythya.
 
Neither Baikal nor Blue-winged nor any other species showing this facial crescent need be involved in parentage for this feature to show in a hybrid. This crescent is, as Lewis said, a recessive feature expressed in a number of hybrids of, for example, Common Teal x Pintail. I don't have it here to scan but in the week-by-week five volume encyclopedia of Birds published by Orbis in the late seventies there was an excellent article on wildfowl hybirdisation which covered this, which gave me my first insights into genetics. Now here comes Joern to declare it is a Baikal hybrid despite that!

Graham
 
Seems it has you all stumped - I must admit teal was going through my head when I was taking the shots. But after looking at the Collins Guide I was completely lost.

A couple of different views to help or confuse more.
 

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My initial reaction was something like Common Teal x Pochard. I still think, after seeing the 2nd set of pictures, that this is as good a guess as any. Common Teal certainly seems to be one of the parents...

Stephen
 
bitterntwisted said:
Neither Baikal nor Blue-winged nor any other species showing this facial crescent need be involved in parentage for this feature to show in a hybrid. This crescent is, as Lewis said, a recessive feature expressed in a number of hybrids of, for example, Common Teal x Pintail. I don't have it here to scan but in the week-by-week five volume encyclopedia of Birds published by Orbis in the late seventies there was an excellent article on wildfowl hybirdisation which covered this, which gave me my first insights into genetics. Now here comes Joern to declare it is a Baikal hybrid despite that!

Graham
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I am only going to say it looks good for an Aythya x Anas hybrid. and look at the head shape when the bird rears for the wing flap- that makes the option of Common Teal for the Anas part likely. But beyond that?

I always find the Aythya x Anas hybrids really difficult. I´ll try to have a closer look onto that one to figure it out...
 
Based on little concrete and without knowing jot about genetics and hybridisation, I can see teal and pochard in there.

Hybrids of this kind are fascinating, and makes me wish I had a better scientific base to understand it fully.
 
Still not easier,
but there something just to show and compare: Other Anas x Aythya:

http://www.pbase.com/image/42152590

http://www.pbase.com/image/70683200

http://www.pbase.com/image/70389931

I am not sure what those above are, but could be gadwall x canvasback. you also see bridling in these (the stripe going down the cheeks, like in baikal teal)


http://www.treknature.com/gallery/Europe/Italy/Friuli-Venezia_Giulia/photo95033.htm

I think the one above here could indeed be Common Pochard x mallard


http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=82494

Also faint briddling in this one from Birdpix--could indeed be pochard x pintail...but again I am not sure...

What seems strange about the bird in this thread is the darkish scapulars and back... makes one wonder if the Aythya involved couldn´t be tufted duck....
Also bill pattern resembles this probable teal x mallard, being not an unusual pattern in common teal hybrids:

http://www.tarsiger.com/index.php?pic_id=muu1170095038&lang=eng
 
Really fasinating stuff - thanks for all your input.

LOL - I've had another rake through my trash can to find a shot with the tufties.

3 Ducks in the frame all I have done is shuffle them closer together because of the file limits of the forum. The mystery Duck kept very close to the female on the left.
 

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robski said:
Really fasinating stuff - thanks for all your input.

LOL - I've had another rake through my trash can to find a shot with the tufties.

3 Ducks in the frame all I have done is shuffle them closer together because of the file limits of the forum. The mystery Duck kept very close to the female on the left.
Click to expand...

If this photo is an accurate reflection of size, perhaps mallard is the more likely Anas parent; rather than teal? I was leaning towards teal x pochard until I saw this!
 
lewis20126 said:
If this photo is an accurate reflection of size, perhaps mallard is the more likely Anas parent; rather than teal? I was leaning towards teal x pochard until I saw this!
Click to expand...

Yes all I have done is condense the image horizontally. So the female and hybrid are about the same distance from the camera. The male was a couple of feet further back.
 
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