Old vs New (1 Viewer)

Petroc · Mar 16, 2011

Some very interesting responses arising from this post, it would seem that many of us enjoy using older binoculars, I think it must be the combination of metal and leather as in old Leica M and Rollieflex cameras exuding that "olde world" quality sometimes missing in modern glasses.
I still enjoy using my old Dialyt 8x30B for that reason, the optics can't match a modern binocular but they are so nice to hold and are built to exquisite standards.
I have never considered the Deltrintem/Jenoptem 8x30s to be high quality glasses what with their wobbly bridge and the tendency to fog up at the merest hint of British drizzle, but in the UK they were cheap, easily available and sold in huge numbers, they are not in the same league as the SE or E11 but neither are they in the same price range, a friend recently bought a mint example from a charity shop for the princely sum of £5.
Perhaps the Nikon E11 enables us to "have our cake and eat it", retro styling and brilliant up to date optics.( I must remember to keep looking in those charity shops!!!)

Petroc.

Simon S · Mar 16, 2011

Petroc said:
Some very interesting responses arising from this post, it would seem that many of us enjoy using older binoculars, I think it must be the combination of metal and leather as in old Leica M and Rollieflex cameras exuding that "olde world" quality sometimes missing in modern glasses.
I still enjoy using my old Dialyt 8x30B for that reason, the optics can't match a modern binocular but they are so nice to hold and are built to exquisite standards.
I have never considered the Deltrintem/Jenoptem 8x30s to be high quality glasses what with their wobbly bridge and the tendency to fog up at the merest hint of British drizzle, but in the UK they were cheap, easily available and sold in huge numbers, they are not in the same league as the SE or E11 but neither are they in the same price range, a friend recently bought a mint example from a charity shop for the princely sum of £5.
Perhaps the Nikon E11 enables us to "have our cake and eat it", retro styling and brilliant up to date optics.( I must remember to keep looking in those charity shops!!!)

Petroc.

I have never seen rock in the focusing mechanism of any Zeiss apart from the Japanese copies of the 70-80's.

James Bean · Mar 20, 2011

Waiting for the tide to come in at Parkgate this morning (Spring High Tide, River Dee) along with a couple of hundred other birdwatchers, allowed an opportunity to conduct an impromptu count of 'who was toting what', old and new. It soon became clear that compact scopes were popular, usually Opticron but also the small Nikon models, while at the high end there were quite a few Carl Zeiss as well as plenty of old Kowa models. Although roof binoculars easily outnumbered porros, I was surprised just how many old porros were being used, and quite happily and successfully, despite many of them not seeming (to my eyes) to be ideally suited to the occasion. Perhaps more surprising was the common use of tiny compact roofs, usually carried by women, which were probably quite sensible if one is going to be standing around for three hours waiting for birds to show up. Most men were happy to be burdened with tripods, haversacks, hats, gloves, anoraks, camping chairs and thermos flasks, quite apart from their weather-protected spotting scopes plus dingle-dangles, and medium to large binoculars with rainguards. I saw no Nikon SEs (I'm taking mine tomorrow!) and I think my Nikon HG was the only one there, although there was another Zeiss 10x40BGAT like mine. There were the usual exotica such as Swarovski, Leica and Zeiss, but few high end Nikons. Despite the onset of rain for a while, old porro users carried on undeterred, although often having to wipe rain or misting from the optics, whereas the inclement weather didn't seem to bother the roofers much. Many of the roofs I couldn't identify, understandably, since there are so many 'makes' these days, mostly sourced from China and, judging by the size, were 8x32 or thereabouts. So, the porro may not be dead, but the ubiquitous roof marches inexorably on to world domination...

James Bean · Mar 21, 2011

Parkgate again today, hoping for a higher tide, but it wasn't to be (not much, anyway). This time there must have been 300 birdwatchers so, while they were looking at birdlife, I amused myself looking at their binoculars (I'm not much good as a birdwatcher, but I soon recognise a Zeiss 7x42 BGAT when I catch a glimpse of one). My weapon of choice was a superb Nikon 10x42SE which performed beautifully all morning: it really is a joy to behold and use, but I don't think anyone else knew or cared: "just another old porro"? I don't expect genuine 'twitchers' to be interested in any binocular per se, because their whole attention is on the birds and the bin is merely a means to an end, whereas I'm a binocular enthusiast who goes birdwatching because I see lots of binoculars, and birds. So, went the day well? Well, there were definitely several of the ubiquitous Zeiss 8x30, an Optolyth Alpin, more than a few Opticron porros (and countless scopes of that make) as well as a Swift large porro (not Audubon) and an old Bausch & Lomb big bin (12x?). Even a Prinz was there (from Dixon's: remember them?) as well as a Boots Pacer, if I'm not mistaken, and a Tasco or two. These may not hold a candle to a Swarovision, but their owners seemed quite content: they're only here for the birds after all, so why not? I didn't spend all my time identifying binoculars; I saw some birds too, like a Peregrine, an extremely graceful Heron, a host of Black-tailed Godwits, a lovely Little Egret, and a Short-eared Owl being chased away by Black-headed Gulls. As for my Nikon 10x42SE, it is Superior both by name and by nature, a superb porro in a sea of roofs: I know that, and as John Keats would have put it, "That is all ye know... and all ye need to know".

Robert Wallace · Mar 21, 2011

Petroc said:
Have you noticed how many older, and often experienced, birdwatchers use ancient binoculars, often in poor condition? I met one such elderly gentleman recently and after offering the use of my scope to view a distant flock of Avocet we got to discussing optics. He was using east German Zeiss 8x30 Jenoptem, nearly all the paint had worn away and he was regularly scrubbing at the eye glasses with his pocket handkerchief! He opined that he did'nt need new ones as he could see the birds well enough with the ones he had.

My first so-called "alpha" binoculars purchased 25 years ago were the Zeiss 10x40 BGT* which were guarenteed for 30 years. I proudly explained to my dear wife that they would last until I reached "three score and ten" in other words a lifetime. Some years later I added a pair of Zeiss 7x42 BGT*P justified in the Pelican edition of "Watching Birds" by James Fisher /Jim Flegg they advise readers to consider becoming the proud owner of two pairs of binoculars, each suited to your precise needs.
I still enjoy using these binoculars and I am convinced that they more than adequate for my birdwatching abilities.
I also like the look and feel of my old Zeiss 10x40s, they are more asthetically pleasing than many newer models.
Having said all that I use the Nikon 8x32 HG (originally purchased for my wife but following major surgery on her spinal cord uses some 8x20s) as my default binocular. The big advantage of the modern roof prism is their water proofness. This was illustrated to me last September when I walked from Cley Coast Guards to Blakeney Point on a fine sunny day but with a strong northerly wind Force 6 gusting 8 and my binoculars were soaked with sea spray, but so what? With my Zeisses I would have been keeping them out of the spray.
Incidently my first decent birding binoculars were the East German Zeiss 10x50 Dekarems which after an outing in pouring rain required the internal surface of the objective lenses cleaning.

Kevin Purcell · Mar 22, 2011

Even a Prinz was there (from Dixon's: remember them?)

Indeed I do. My first bins were Dixon's Prinz 10x50 bought at the Southport Dixon's when I was 15 or 16(?). MgF2 coated. Probably "barely coated" if I recall correctly. I eventually dropped them and they deformed an objective tube out of collimation.

Edit: That would have been in the mid to late 1970s: 1977?

Matt_RTH · Mar 22, 2011

Robert Wallace said:
My first so-called "alpha" binoculars purchased 25 years ago were the Zeiss 10x40 BGT* which were guarenteed for 30 years. I proudly explained to my dear wife that they would last until I reached "three score and ten" in other words a lifetime. Some years later I added a pair of Zeiss 7x42 BGT*P justified in the Pelican edition of "Watching Birds" by James Fisher /Jim Flegg they advise readers to consider becoming the proud owner of two pairs of binoculars, each suited to your precise needs.

Two pairs!? What amazing control the author must have had. Or maybe it was because he didn't have the interwebs to tempt him. Then again I still look at those old birding rags and spend a lot of time - you guessed it - looking at the ads.

But in any event this all goes to show that above a certain performance level, a binocular is a to a birder what a hammer is to a carpenter. A carpenter might like the latest hammer but... the metaphor is obvious.

I have found CBC season to be a more interesting time to compare gear. It's amazing what some of the experts use. If they are pros, like work with Fish and Game, it's almost always German. But there are many really excellent birders using oddball models with weird colors and designs that defy imagination. And there are more than a few who use the same "old" design they used for 30 years. One of my older "dogs" is a single coated Nikon 7x35E. In practice there is absolutely zero disadvantage in its older coatings, though I have tried to find it.

I just wish I could keep it at two. Maybe it's like a dream hand in Texas Hold 'Em. I got two pairs - a pair of Alphas, and another pair of Alphas.

James Bean · Mar 22, 2011

Ah, those were the days, Kevin! I used to dream of having a 'decent' binocular from the local Dixon's in Wallasey: "Some day my Prinz will come", and so it did, in the form of a Prinz 7x50 for the princely (!) sum of £14 if I remember rightly. A friend thought he'd buy a 'better' Prinz, a 20x50, and I was quite envious that 'his was bigger than mine' until I tried it and discovered that 7x50 was pretty much what I'd been told in the shop, "the best compromise you can buy, being quite good enough at everything", while the 20x50 was like seeing 'through a glass darkly', if you could find what you were looking at, then hold it steady long enough! I later gave that 7x50 to my Dad, who said it was the best binocular he was ever going to need...

Kevin Purcell · Mar 23, 2011

I can recall I actually wanted a 7x (actually a 7x35) but they didn't make them so I ended up with a 10x50 (go figure

). It must have been under £20. Ah, the good old days. Plugging the numbers into an inflation calculator I see that would be under £80 today. Clearly "kwality" bins.

James Bean · Mar 23, 2011

The theme of this thread, 'old v. new', prompted me to visit the Dee Estuary at Parkgate yet again yesterday, this time to compare a 68 year old porroprism binocular with a new one representing probably the pinnacle of porro perfection (at a reasonable price), in the sun and just for fun. The oldie was a 1943 Universal Camera Corp.(N.Y.) 6x30IF, supplied to U.S. Navy Bu'Ships as the model O (N) mk.XXXIII, similar in size and appearance to a Zeiss 8x30 of that era but, to me, better built, more elegant, and with nicer ergonomics. In the left ocular it has a finely etched graticule (reticle) by which size may be related to distance; the eyepieces focus individually and are narrow enough to fit my eye sockets, thereby presenting a nice big view. The lenses are 'bloomed' blue and provide a sharp, clear image with good depth. The new porro was the most recent Nikon EII 10x35 model, arguably only surpassed by the 10x42SE (which I prefer, but only just). The 'target' for the comparison was a Little Egret playing 'catch me if you can' in the marsh grasses 200 yards away. What surprised me was how good the 6x30 was in finding and following this graceful bird, considering its age (the bin, not the bird) and its quite low magnification. Yes, the EII was demonstrably superior with its modern lens coatings and 10x power but, and this is the acid test, the 6x30 was well up to the task of locating and identifying the bird and providing a nice image. IF is not as convenient as centre focus, but with great depth of field you don't need to twiddle too often. A 'three score years and ten' lifetime may separate these two binoculars, but the Bureau of Ships must have been happy with their then 'state of the art' 6x30 and my outing shows there's life in the old sea-dog yet...

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