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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

SFWS Survey 2016: More Birders Than Hunters? (1 Viewer)

Most of the hunters here all have binoculars - and mostly swaroski. My neighbour even has a swaroski 95mm scope! Imagine how jealous I am of him - he is not a birdwatcher - and one neighbour the other side just spent 700€ on a pair of binoculars - he is neither birdwatcher or hunter.

Last example friends parents who have a pair of Zeiss Dialyt to see their horses!

Anyway, as mentioned above, binocular sales are not all to birdwatchers. As for the figures, 45million birdwatchers, surprises me greatly. There are 1M members of the RSPB in the UK but not 1M birdwatchers...
 
jurek said:
Hunters, in my opinion, are more active, better organized as a lobby, and also perceived publicly as more important lobby. Birders still are perceived, and see themselves, as a narrow niche hobby.
Click to expand...

Fox hunting was enjoyed by the very elite of British society, Royalty, the titled, judges, landowners, MPs. If ever there was an organised lobby, they were it. Yet it got banned, not through nature lovers / mammal watchers winning the battle over the hunters, but through that innocent glass screen we keep in our houses.
There had been a growing view that fox hunting had become something medieval, like hawking, or bear baiting, yet the masses were willing to look the other way because there was also a belief that only old or diseased foxes got caught, and that the fit ones got away (a sort of unnatural selection). Then came a news feature, broadcast nationally, and said masses found themselves witnessing the filming of a hunt that had chased a fox to ground, before sending in a terrier to drag it out. Letters of complaint were written, a lot of letters, and the ball started rolling (incidentally, the bulletin hadn't been shown to highlight the cruelty, but because Prince Charles was a member of the hunt involved, and in the UK, Royalty + Controversy = instantaneous blanket headlines).
Of course, hunting with guns isn't hunting with dogs, and here the masses DO look the other way (prior to tipping off the British press, maybe someone ought to persuade Prince Charles to nip up to a Cumbrian Grouse moor and take out a Hen Harrier with a twelve bore). Dark humour aside, in these wildlife aware times, maybe hunting will dwindle away, maybe it wont. In the absence of some serious e-mailing, I suspect we'll hear the distant thump of gunshot for sometime yet.
The Hunting with Dogs Act, President Trump, Brexit -never underestimate the power of the many.
 
Egrets Ivadafew said:
Fox hunting was enjoyed by the very elite of British society, Royalty, the titled, judges, landowners, MPs. If ever there was an organised lobby, they were it. Yet it got banned
Click to expand...

It seems very much business as usual for these folks. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/fox-hunting-uk-britain-mobs-driving-communities-apart-a7948516.html) The laws may be on the statutes, but cannot be enforced - which results in contempt for the law. That cannot be a good thing.

Egrets Ivadafew said:
maybe someone ought to persuade Prince Charles to nip up to a Cumbrian Grouse moor and take out a Hen Harrier with a twelve bore.
Click to expand...

No need - when Harry... or one of his mates... already has!
 
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I see more glass sitting on rifles than attached to neck straps when it comes to hunters.

Nikon Sports Optics search lists 147 results in Riflescopes.

Their AR/MSR riflescopes alone lists 30 models.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/scopes/all-scopes/index.page

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/scopes/ar-msr/index.page

Nikon is sensitive to the ethics of hunting.

They will not allow any retailer that sells their cameras to sell their riflescopes.

Though you may peddle other manufacturers riflescopes along side Nikon cameras.
 
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Patudo said:
The laws may be on the statutes, but cannot be enforced
Click to expand...

Catch22 I'm afraid Patudo. It's called Drag Hunting (a sort of mammalian version of a clay pigeon shoot). A guy goes out early morning dragging fabric containing a false scent (usually aniseed) for several miles, and the hounds follow this. The hunt can do this because it's not illegal to wear hunting gear, it's not illegal to ride horses, and it's not illegal to exercise a pack of dogs. Of course, any member of Birdforum can guess what's probably going to happen when the drag crosses a scent laid by a fox.
It can be policed but only with great difficulty, someone has to not just film it, but prove the fox was in sight of the pursuers, or film the den being dug up and / or terriers being sent in. If it is proved, the maximum fine is £5,000.
As for Prince Harry's mates? Nothing surprises me.
 
Nixterdemus said:
I see more glass sitting on rifles than attached to neck straps when it comes to hunters.

Nikon Sports Optics search lists 147 results in Riflescopes.

Their AR/MSR riflescopes alone lists 30 models.

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/scopes/all-scopes/index.page

https://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/nikon-products/scopes/ar-msr/index.page

Nikon is sensitive to the ethics of hunting.

They will not allow any retailer that sells their cameras to sell their riflescopes.

Though you may peddle other manufacturers riflescopes along side Nikon cameras.
Click to expand...



Swarovski is not sensitive to hunting ethics in the manner that Nikon is.

It sponsors a popular hunting show on the Outdoor Channel of my local Cable TV.

Yesterday while I was cable hopping between a Baseball playoff game and a number of NFL football games I got to see quite a bit of a hunting show produced by Swarovski Optik about hunting for Red Stags in Argentina's Patagonia region. It was headquartered at a very pricey lodge. I learned that Red Stags were introduced into Patagonia about 100 years ago and have thrived there. I saw at least one being harvested and there may have been more but I had to get back to the playoff game.

Later during, during a commercial in the game, I returned to the outdoor channel where they were showing a very large wild boar making its way through the pampas but it was not an object of the hunt. However, right after that, one was featured at a dinner in the lodge along with various bottles of Red wine which I assumed were Argentine vintages.

All the participants in the field were wearing large sized Swarovski SLCs (they looked like SLCs) and were shown using them and their guides were carrying Swarovski Scopes. It is big country in that location and large SUVs which I could not identify were used to ferry the participants around.

Bob
 
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Nixterdemus said:
I've a 9mm rimmed rook rifle, #6, #7.5 & #8 shot, that I ease through a crack in the door for cowbirds trespassing under the bird feeder. No need of license und I most definately have the desire to rid the earth of every cowbird I encounter.

Does that qualify me as a hunter?
Click to expand...

No need for a license? The Brown-headed Cowbird is a native species and is protected from take (like most non-game species) by federal law. Sometimes permits are issued for cowbird control (a generally ineffective, even in the short term, strategy). To answer your question, it seems you are by definition a poacher, not a (legal) hunter.

--AP
 
Alexis Powell said:
No need for a license? The Brown-headed Cowbird is a native species and is protected from take (like most non-game species) by federal law. Sometimes permits are issued for cowbird control (a generally ineffective, even in the short term, strategy). To answer your question, it seems you are by definition a poacher, not a (legal) hunter.

--AP
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Also, it's against forum rules to mention hunting of birds. Some people still don't know what forum they're on. Moderators must've missed that post.
 
Nixterdemus said:
I've a 9mm rimmed rook rifle, #6, #7.5 & #8 shot, that I ease through a crack in the door for cowbirds trespassing under the bird feeder. No need of license und I most definately have the desire to rid the earth of every cowbird I encounter.

Does that qualify me as a hunter?
Click to expand...

SKB (serial bird killer),

Not knowing what a cowbird actually is, I googled it and according to the Cornell lab of Ornithology the population declined by 31% since 1966.
You've been active for quite some time:-C

Jan
 
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I think you probably have as many competitive and recreational shooters, as you do actual big game hunters - maybe more. What they have for optics usually depends on just how serious they are and disposal income. You will spend serious money, if you have the "need" to see 22 center fire bullet holes in paper at 300 yards.

Big Game Hunting in the States is getting very expensive for those that travel out of State - so for some of those individuals, the very high-end optics rule the day - whereas, the "locals" sometimes just make do with inexpensive optics and equipment.

Some of them might call themselves "birders" as when they scan for their game animals without much success (When I hunted elk/moose/deer I think about 99.5% of my week was spent looking at everything but what I was hunting). You can spend a lot of time viewing bird/small animal activity and enjoy every minute - Nature is to be enjoyed.
 
The cowbird has been subject to eratication programs on at least several different States in the states for years. Being parasitic it finds itself falling out of favour on regular basis.

As well grackles, starlings are about as welcome as pigeons.

Now, if only I had a Dublin barrel garten schrotflinte ...
 
And shooting a Cowbird or Grackle is against the Federal Migratory Act and it becomes a Federal crime.
 
Maljunolo, can you check your computer settings, you appear to have logged into the wrong site, this one's dedicated to wild birds and birding.
 
As you wish.

I must say that it has been enjoyable, and instructive.

Optics are one of my great loves, and I enjoy using them.

Cheers!
 
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