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Field guides in the future (1 Viewer)

Well not really. Think of the bat detector as just a sound recorder.
You'd typically take the file, analyse it on some spectrum analysis software, and coupled with any visual clues when you saw the bat, identify the bat.

Well now you get software that takes the file and tells you the bat, end of! similar to plantsnap taking your photo and telling you the plant.
I think there is a danger here of putting too much faith and reliance in the software.

Much better, I think, would be the app/field guide whatever, asking you questions so you come up with the identification yourself, and that way you learn why it is that species. More along the lines of an identification key.
 
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DMW said:
.........….paper field guides, but once the major gaps in geographical coverage are filled (and which Lynx seem to be tackling) it's perhaps likely that improvements in regional guides will be incremental.

So how would you like to see field guides develop in the future?

…………. :)
Click to expand...

I think what Lynx is doing now is to cash in on their large data base, but not necessarily in the birders' best interests! One needs to keep in mind that the vast majority of the depictions comes from the general illustrations of the species. And these often do not show the critical field marks. Sure, some flight views are often added now, but over all, specific FGs give more helpful specific details in the illustrations. Needless to say that Lynx has managed to close some important gaps. But to a certain extent that has come at the cost of discouraging the production of books with more suitable specific illustrations.
 
Swissboy said:
I think what Lynx is doing now is to cash in on their large data base, but not necessarily in the birders' best interests! One needs to keep in mind that the vast majority of the depictions comes from the general illustrations of the species. And these often do not show the critical field marks. Sure, some flight views are often added now, but over all, specific FGs give more helpful specific details in the illustrations. Needless to say that Lynx has managed to close some important gaps. But to a certain extent that has come at the cost of discouraging the production of books with more suitable specific illustrations.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with all of this.
 
Swissboy said:
I think what Lynx is doing now is to cash in on their large data base, but not necessarily in the birders' best interests! One needs to keep in mind that the vast majority of the depictions comes from the general illustrations of the species. And these often do not show the critical field marks. Sure, some flight views are often added now, but over all, specific FGs give more helpful specific details in the illustrations. Needless to say that Lynx has managed to close some important gaps. But to a certain extent that has come at the cost of discouraging the production of books with more suitable specific illustrations.
Click to expand...

These are all valid points. The Lynx guides are typically not up to the standards of Collins, and if a "Collins" for - say - Thailand was published, it would undoubtedly sell very well. That was really my point about future improvements in paper-based field guides being incremental.

What I am trying to do is envisage how digital publishing could change the concept of the field guide. One of the possibilities that would add value is to be able to upload additional artwork or photos to the digital field guides, rather than wait 10 years for the second edition.

For example, most field guides are quite hopeless for identifying the difficult groups, such as Cisticolas, Phylloscopus warblers, Acros, Tyrannulets etc. Wouldn't it be useful if an artist could produce a really good set of plates of one or more of these groups, and sell them as a "bolt-on", to replace the pre-existing plates for these groups. Or a photographer do the same with an annotated collage of photos.

This would bring an end to the traditional publication cycle of 2nd and 3rd editions, and make the field guide a continuously evolving "open source" platform that users could update with their own or third party content.
 
The ultimate would be this:

make a superb plate of every species, and if possible, every single subspecies, + flight + juvenile + winter plumage + breeding plumage...
make an up-to-date distribution map of every species.

make an app that AUTOMATICALLY connects your current location with all possible species, and the relevant plates for those species (and the relevant sounds!). Make filters in those apps based on input of your life list, your want-to-see list,...
Feed the app with all possible databases (ebird, inaturalist, observado, ...)
Last: the app could have a photo ID option, a shazam-for-birdsounds option,...

So in short: you travel to Norway in winter. You want to see birds that occur in Norway in winter, in winter plumage, of the correct subspecies, and you can filter all lifers (or not) + locations of last sightings,...

Or you want to make a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Ecuador. You should see all species of birds that occur in Ecuador, or that occur on your travel itinerary, all of the correct subspecies,...You could even print all of those plates in a custom field guide, and if the plates would come with concise texts, the extraction from plates + text to a field guide layout should be a piece of cake with some automated designing software.

All of this should be already possible (technically), we only need someone willing to do the programming, and the databases willing to have API so the active feed option can work. HBW is already doing the drawing, but while they obviously want to cash in on current artwork, they should keep refining and expanding the current artwork.
 
And there goes all the fun and most of the challenge of our wonderful hobby.

I know for a fact, that having to trawl through pages of similar species, looking at differentiating features and figuring out ranges, has given me far more knowledge than I'd ever be exposed to under this vision of hell. It's like driving an automatic car, in the long run, you become a less capable driver
 
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DMW said:
These are all valid points. The Lynx guides are typically not up to the standards of Collins, and if a "Collins" for - say - Thailand was published, it would undoubtedly sell very well. That was really my point about future improvements in paper-based field guides being incremental.

What I am trying to do is envisage how digital publishing could change the concept of the field guide. One of the possibilities that would add value is to be able to upload additional artwork or photos to the digital field guides, rather than wait 10 years for the second edition.

For example, most field guides are quite hopeless for identifying the difficult groups, such as Cisticolas, Phylloscopus warblers, Acros, Tyrannulets etc. Wouldn't it be useful if an artist could produce a really good set of plates of one or more of these groups, and sell them as a "bolt-on", to replace the pre-existing plates for these groups. Or a photographer do the same with an annotated collage of photos.

This would bring an end to the traditional publication cycle of 2nd and 3rd editions, and make the field guide a continuously evolving "open source" platform that users could update with their own or third party content.
Click to expand...

I like that idea.or even: Similar to buying a pc.. you choose the operating system, browser, email, spreadsheet. Etc
For the field guide,, You start with the framework app, then add your choice of plates, regions, text, sound files, distribution maps, sightings all in the one app.
I'd be a Collins, bwpi, xeno cante, ebirder!
Others may prefer helm, Collins, bwpi sounds, bird track sightings.

Would things ever be consistent enough to make this happen? Probably not, but who knows. You wouldn't have thought a Microsoft file could edited with free non-microsoft software a few years ago.
 
DMW said:
These are all valid points. The Lynx guides are typically not up to the standards of Collins, and if a "Collins" for - say - Thailand was published, it would undoubtedly sell very well. That was really my point about future improvements in paper-based field guides being incremental.

What I am trying to do is envisage how digital publishing could change the concept of the field guide. One of the possibilities that would add value is to be able to upload additional artwork or photos to the digital field guides, rather than wait 10 years for the second edition.

For example, most field guides are quite hopeless for identifying the difficult groups, such as Cisticolas, Phylloscopus warblers, Acros, Tyrannulets etc. Wouldn't it be useful if an artist could produce a really good set of plates of one or more of these groups, and sell them as a "bolt-on", to replace the pre-existing plates for these groups. Or a photographer do the same with an annotated collage of photos.

This would bring an end to the traditional publication cycle of 2nd and 3rd editions, and make the field guide a continuously evolving "open source" platform that users could update with their own or third party content.
Click to expand...

Point the first, aren't all, new ID features, by their very nature, 'incremental' and much of the time, advances in field ID are quite infrequent.

Point the second, I doubt with all sincerity, that many of the tougher groups as mentioned, even with the best plates, are reliably 'do'able' without knowledge of vocalisations or use of recordings so IMHO, that's a bit of an irrelevance? It is obviously though, an area where an 'app' is hugely superior where a recording is conveniently accessible rather than having to decipher a phonetic rendition of a call.

When I'm on a trip where there's a tricky group or groups, I just trawl for each target species with a recording, it's really the only reliable way for most of us who see these species so infrequently.
 
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andyadcock said:
Point the first, aren't all, new ID features, by their very nature, 'incremental' and much of the time, advances in field ID are quite infrequent.

Point the second, I doubt with all sincerity, that many of the tougher groups as mentioned, even with the best plates, are reliably 'do'able' without knowledge of vocalisations or use of recordings so IMHO, that's a bit of an irrelevance? It is obviously though, an area where an 'app' is hugely superior where a recording is conveniently accessible rather than having to decipher a phonetic rendition of a call.

When I'm on a trip where there's a tricky group or groups, I just trawl for each target species with a recording, it's really the only reliable way for most of us who see these species so infrequently.
Click to expand...

It's certainly true that vocalisations are often critical, but it's nice to confirm that once the bird comes in to investigate, it's actually the one you think are playing, rather than a mislabeled recording (has happened to me), or a different species that has come in just for the hell of it (has also happened to me).

If you haven't already seen it, take a look at Faansie Peacock's guide to southern African LBJs http://faansiepeacock.com/lbjs-2/. It actually gives a fighting chance of IDing, say, most if not all the regional Cisticolas from plumage, behaviour, jizz etc. Then there are birds for which vocalisations are less useful, such as some of the pipits - we found it invaluable for confidently IDing Buffy Pipit.

But your point about recordings is taken: it was on the original list of things a modern digital field guide needs :t:
 
DMW said:
It's certainly true that vocalisations are often critical, but it's nice to confirm that once the bird comes in to investigate, it's actually the one you think are playing, rather than a mislabeled recording (has happened to me), or a different species that has come in just for the hell of it (has also happened to me).

If you haven't already seen it, take a look at Faansie Peacock's guide to southern African LBJs http://faansiepeacock.com/lbjs-2/. It actually gives a fighting chance of IDing, say, most if not all the regional Cisticolas from plumage, behaviour, jizz etc. Then there are birds for which vocalisations are less useful, such as some of the pipits - we found it invaluable for confidently IDing Buffy Pipit.

But your point about recordings is taken: it was on the original list of things a modern digital field guide needs :t:
Click to expand...

I have this book and it's superb however, I still think that African Pipits are one of the toughest groups anywhere. Just to illustrate my point, I assume that you're aware that Kimberley Pipit no longer exists?

I'm very glad that I decided not to go looking for this bird when we were there!
 
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andyadcock said:
And there goes all the fun and most of the challenge of our wonderful hobby.

I know for a fact, that having to trawl through pages of similar species, looking at differentiating features and figuring out ranges, has given me far more knowledge than I'd ever be exposed to under this vision of hell. It's like driving an automatic car, in the long run, you become a less capable driver
Click to expand...

I can only guess the fun and challenge of your wonderful hobby is trawling through Cisticola pages within the Africa S of the Sahara field guide, trying to ID a certain bird and being confused by similarly looking species that don’t occur in that area, or illustrated subspecies that are nothing like the subspecies you could get in your area... you better take the full hbw coffee table books so you can always compare all species from the whole world. You wouldn’t want any field guide confined to one country or one biogeographical region. That would take all the fun out, not getting a chance to compare the african pipit you just saw with some oriental pipits...
 
If you want everything to be so simple, why not take up trainspotting? You can get a timetable and you'll know exactly what you'll see and when, ok, maybe not in the UK with our rail service......;)
 
I like clarity, full info, but I remember having a very hard time using certain field guides with plates separate from maps and text. Those guides have a (in my eyes) unnecessary steep learning curve. I enjoy good design that helps getting a clear message across...
 
temmie said:
HBW is already doing the drawing, but while they obviously want to cash in on current artwork, they should keep refining and expanding the current artwork.
Click to expand...

This is what they are doing I think. E.g. plenty of new drawings in the Vietnam or the Thailand guide, which are also now available in HBW alive. Obviously they have a good headstart with the plates and texts from HBW for new field guides, but it's certainly more than cashing in on these. Additional plates, all distinct local subspecies illustrated, up-to date information on local occurance, good maps, bird names in local language, a user friendly layout. For the book I use (Vietnam), all useful improvements over the existing guides, so I for my part am certainly happy with this project of Lynx.

HBW alive is also great. What they still miss, for both the HBW alive and the field guides is apps for the field.
 
I feel that the biggest scope for improvement in field guides can be songs and calls. Currently we are in a situation where there are bird recordings, and descrptions are often poor, not clear, and not linked to them. Bird sound and in a situation in which bird pictures were 50 years ago. Essentailly like a primitive field guide which has bird photos at the end, and separate texts with scant descriptions.

I would welcome e.g. an app which plays a bird song, and at the same time prints bulletpoint identification marks of the song. For example, when a song of Chaffinch is being played, the app lists quickly main characteristic points. When Chaffinchs typical final tone sounds, the bulletpoint of this ending tone highlights. Xeno-canto might add this functionality to some best recording.

Even better would be a "local guide app". An app where you can load several songs of birds which you need. When a matching sound is heard in the forest, the app matches the sounds and buzzes. That app needs not to be fool-proof. It would emulate one of biggest advantages of having an experienced ornithologist with you in the field. An experienced person can notice a rare bird calling in the distance, which you would completely miss among other sounds.

temmie said:
trawling through Cisticola pages within the Africa S of the Sahara field guide
Click to expand...

Cisticolas in Africa are not as difficult as African field guides show them to be.

Many illustrations are poor, essentially copies of one 'standard-cisticola' omitting many differences. And indeed, habitat and distribution differ. Typically there are 2-3 clearly different cisticolas in any one locality. Add to this a song and it is not so difficult.

There is indeed a scope for better African or Asian guides. The current ones remind me of European guides from 30 years ago, where all warblers or all young gulls were painted as copies of one bird.
 
I am a rather techy person, one could even say young if they like to flatter me, but I still don't think anything will replace paper books any time soon. Especially for people who read and process visual information fast (lile myself), physical browsing through pages is unbeatable, simply because of the layout which can't be really beaten by a single display, within human hand-sized transport packages. Maybe if they make something like a book when each page can change contents while being paper-thin, but that's nowhere in sight.

That having said, there is, in my opinion, tremendous room for improvement when it comes to field guides. First and foremost, I am very sorry to say that on a forum, where actually people who made field guides have account, but compared to WP Collins (Svensson et al), the illustrations in many current books are terrible. Unless this is rectified, noone can claim lack of room for improvement.

Secondly, even Collins is sometimes too shallow for today's standards. One can say I should be buying "specialized" books, but I don't think it's impossible to put more information into a Collins-sized books. Just remove the obvious descriptions that are just saying basic facts that are clearly seen fram the drawings and put the tricky stuff itself - wing structures, emarginations, visible primaries, all that sweet stuff doesn't take so many latters to provide (especially if you define symbolism well) and it's much more useful than reading that a blackbird is black. I am simply not aware of a book that would have all of this in one package - the good illustrations, range maps and comprehensibility of Collins combined with obscene details of the advanced narrow-field books.

Now for Europe, such a book can be done off the bat, but not even WP has everything clear when it comes to obscure ID yet, so work definitely exists to be done. I can only imagine how much could FGs be improved in much less birded areas where field marks for rarity IDs aren't as optimized as here!
 
I start to appreciate more photos as an addition to drawings. If illustrations are imperfect. photos capture better the jizz of a bird. Useful for tropical species where there are multiple similar brown insect-eaters or greenish weaver-likes which are unfamiliar to you.

I also made a progress from paper guidebooks to electronic ones. One hot sweaty afternoon in New Guinea I decided I hate carrying the book. I sat down, waiting for some non-existent kingfisher, and took pictures of every plate with my mobile. It took maybe 30 min, worked surprisingly well and we never carried the book in the field ever since. Then at the airport, I did the same with The Birds of the Indonesian Archipelago. Worked well, and the book stayed safe in the hotel room. In future we plan not to take paper books even as an insurance, because we have multiple mobile phones between us.
 
jurek said:
I start to appreciate more photos as an addition to drawings. If illustrations are imperfect. photos capture better the jizz of a bird. Useful for tropical species where there are multiple similar brown insect-eaters or greenish weaver-likes which are unfamiliar to you.

I also made a progress from paper guidebooks to electronic ones. One hot sweaty afternoon in New Guinea I decided I hate carrying the book. I sat down, waiting for some non-existent kingfisher, and took pictures of every plate with my mobile. It took maybe 30 min, worked surprisingly well and we never carried the book in the field ever since. Then at the airport, I did the same with The Birds of the Indonesian Archipelago. Worked well, and the book stayed safe in the hotel room. In future we plan not to take paper books even as an insurance, because we have multiple mobile phones between us.
Click to expand...

Not much good if you spend a week in a place with no electricity though.

Tech is also susceptible to humid environments and may at some point fail.
 
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