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six eaglets released on the Isle of Wight (1 Viewer)

White-tailed eagles are gracing the skies of southern Britain for the first time in 240 years after six eaglets were released on the Isle of Wight. :t:

Hang on then, I must have dreamed the White-tailed Eagles at Brill, Sheppey, Old Basing, Cholderton..... oh, no I didn't. 8-P

Not only is this another stupid vanity project but the reporting is one hundred percent rubbish as well. :C

John
 
Hang on then, I must have dreamed the White-tailed Eagles at Brill, Sheppey, Old Basing, Cholderton..... oh, no I didn't. 8-P

Not only is this another stupid vanity project but the reporting is one hundred percent rubbish as well. :C

John

I disagree - not only a worthy restoration project, but the reporting is hardly "one hundred percent rubbish". Sure there have been the occasional vagrants, but the point is it is 240 years since the breeders were persecuted out - so a moderately minor error I would say, just needed the addition of 'breeding', ie. 240 years since breeding birds graced the skies of southern Britain.
 
I disagree - not only a worthy restoration project, but the reporting is hardly "one hundred percent rubbish". Sure there have been the occasional vagrants, but the point is it is 240 years since the breeders were persecuted out - so a moderately minor error I would say, just needed the addition of 'breeding', ie. 240 years since breeding birds graced the skies of southern Britain.

I know we've been round this block, but:

- Britain already has a substantial White-tailed Eagle population which will expand into all areas if the conditions exist to allow it (this includes absence of persecution: supposedly a prerequisite condition for reintroductions) so this is just a vanity project and the conditions are doubtful

- evidence of the number of territories on the Isle of Wight to match the releases is lacking, and in the wider South of England the conditions are more doubtful

For the specific article its a binary solution set, first WTE for 240 years right/wrong - wrong. As the birds are 1st years, its a bit soon to add "breeding". They might all just go elsewhere, and one of our recent wintering first years was from Finland, so potentially that could mean a long way off!

If the question is "would I like a population of WTE in Hampshire/IOW" then the answer is obviously yes. We shall see how this goes. If I am wrong that is a good thing.

Cheers

John
 
I know we've been round this block, but:

- Britain already has a substantial White-tailed Eagle population which will expand into all areas if the conditions exist to allow it (this includes absence of persecution: supposedly a prerequisite condition for reintroductions) so this is just a vanity project and the conditions are doubtful

- evidence of the number of territories on the Isle of Wight to match the releases is lacking, and in the wider South of England the conditions are more doubtful

For the specific article its a binary solution set, first WTE for 240 years right/wrong - wrong. As the birds are 1st years, its a bit soon to add "breeding". They might all just go elsewhere, and one of our recent wintering first years was from Finland, so potentially that could mean a long way off!

If the question is "would I like a population of WTE in Hampshire/IOW" then the answer is obviously yes. We shall see how this goes. If I am wrong that is a good thing.

Cheers

John

Spot on.
 
For the specific article its a binary solution set, first WTE for 240 years right/wrong - wrong.

A single error, and moderately minor, means the article is 'one hundred percent rubbish'? Gee, high standards.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of the reintroduction - I personally see it as a good news story and, even if it were a 'vanity project', I would not care. I see no negative should they succeed.
 
I wish the scheme well but feel that the Nature Conservancy Council (there, that dates me;)), English Nature, Natural England.....or whatever they are changing their headed notepaper to this year would concentrate their time and energy on existing raptors that are under localised persecution ‘oop North:C

I cannot help thinking that this is the short straw that has been drawn that has the least negative response from that permanently outraged minority pressure group.....the Farmers.

The birds are from established Scottish birds, presumably 1st clutch, with no guarantee that they will hang around to see the next Garlic Festival. Indeed one of the Norwegian birds introduced during the ‘Eastern’ phase upon graduating to breeding condition promptly buggered off to raise young somewhere much safer.....Norway - only a few miles from where it came from:-O Must be a ‘homing’ Eagle;)

We have come a long way from the Rhum introductions. I for one could not have forseen the success of these magnificent birds and i speak as somebody who spent 6 weeks helping feed the things in 1977 the year after the project started - under the watchful eye of John Love who become a father figure to the young Eagles:t:

I had until this May in Poland only seen 1 WTE in the UK but it was the well-twitched Brill bird. Despite narrowed eyes i wish the scheme well...

Laurie -
 
Hope they have better luck than the juvenile we had up here near Louth Lincolnshire. It was a suspected poisoning by a local farmer, not proved. Beautiful bird, looks enormous when close but blends in well with trees when perched. We used to call it cilla, from it's Latin name Haliaeetus albicilla, birders came from all over the UK to see it.
 
‘cilla’ in this case is Latin for tail and not to be confused with that other rare Scouse Warbler;)

Ironic that the Farming industry punches above its weight but quite a few i see are overweight and could do with punching:eek!: #joke

How much illegal poison is lying around in old farm buildings up and down the country? It gives cause for concern - no wonder nobody wants to marry them:-O

Laurie -
 
PS of the vagrants in southern Britain in recent years, have there been any records of two or more together?

Not aware of any. They aren't exactly annual as vagrants, even, and as previously mentioned we have one known Finnish bird so they don't represent expansion from nearby populations, just winter wanderings of young birds. Wintering groups of Rough-legged Buzzards are more common!

I'm not sure how far we can push the analogy but the increasing "efficiency" of persecution of Golden Eagles in Southern Scotland has scuppered expansion Southwards by them, so we might reasonably expect the same flak barrier will keep the Scottish WTE in check.

How many pheasants and partridges will Southern shooters be prepared to risk losing to Southern WTE? Maybe not many, maybe they won't mind - after all they don't shoot at cars, which kill vast numbers of their farmed shotgun-fodder. Believe what you will. Personally I would want to be pretty certain of a favourable response before putting vulnerable birds in harm's way.

John
 
I would have thought that releasing them on another island is a factor as they might hang around and become a feature rather than wandering over the ‘killing fields’ of the mainland where they can be blasted with impunity by people who feel they are above the Law which does little to enforce itself to a Judiciary that is almost part of a cosy cartel that doesn’t really give a toss - just my pre Bank Holiday thoughts;)

Laurie:t:
 
Does the Isle of Wight have a full time Wildlife Liason Officer in these days of cutbacks? Maybe Boris' promise of extra police force manpower doesn't extend to protecting wildlife?
 
Whatever happens to them will be blamed on Brexit.....unless the scheme is a roaring success and then the Farmers will claim the credit - roll on Halloween;)

Laurie:t:
 
- Britain already has a substantial White-tailed Eagle population which will expand into all areas if the conditions exist to allow it (this includes absence of persecution: supposedly a prerequisite condition for reintroductions) so this is just a vanity project and the conditions are doubtful

I'm not sure how far we can push the analogy but the increasing "efficiency" of persecution of Golden Eagles in Southern Scotland has scuppered expansion Southwards by them, so we might reasonably expect the same flak barrier will keep the Scottish WTE in check.

These two statements seem somewhat contradictory to me. You seem to be saying that WTE will spread out of Scotland naturally, so reintroduction elsewhere is pointless, but also saying that spreading from Scotland is not possible because of existing persecution. Surely a project to allow them to colonise beyond this area of persecution will be beneficial, and potentially more effective (in the short term) than relying on a change of behaviour in the human population.
I agree that efforts should be made to stop persecution of birds in southern Scotland (and elsewhere), but until that happens the Scottish population is effectively trapped.


For the specific article its a binary solution set, first WTE for 240 years right/wrong - wrong. As the birds are 1st years, its a bit soon to add "breeding". They might all just go elsewhere, and one of our recent wintering first years was from Finland, so potentially that could mean a long way off!

I presume this is the reason that they are releasing fledgeling birds. These may wander but will have a tendency to return close to their fledging site (ie Isle of Wight), much as you report for the Finnish bird. This is one reason that the spread of birds from populations elsewhere is slow.


So far as persecution goes I think it is fairly light in Hampshire and round about: we've plenty of Buzzards, the Kites are going from strength to strength, Goshawks do well in the New Forest - but we're not exactly over-run with them up here in NE Hampshire yet..... Peregrines we do have but half of them breed and roost in towns where shotgun-toting gamekeepers are rarely seen, so that may not be much of a guide to what happens to really predatory raptors in rural areas. Hopefully it would be OK.
(This is from the other thread linked above)

You seem to be happy about the presence of Goshawks and Kites in Hampshire. I know the origins of the goshawks is uncertain, but the kites certainly only go there from a reintroduction. Personally I see no difference between this and the eagle reintroduction - kites could have been left to recolonise (very slowly) from Wales, but instead were reintroduced across the country and are now flourishing. Do you think that was a mistake?


Personally I am strongly in favour of this reintroduction and I hope it will be successful. There is the potential for birds to spread from here along the English coast, and potentially also cross the channel to the coasts of Normandy and Brittany, or the Channel Islands. It will add to the birding experience on the south coast, and will allow the human population of southern England to become reacquainted with wild predators after several centuries of ecologically-impoverished countryside.
 
Before the Kite re-intro scheme i believe that all known nests in Wales were surveyed and DNA samples were taken from the nestlings. The information gathered revealed a very low genetic diversity implying that all the birds were very closely related which makes sense considering they were reduced to a handful of breeding pairs thanks to localised Lead ‘poisoning’. The Welsh birds took a century to reach 100 pairs - look at how many there are just in the Chilterns in 20 years or so. Similiar with the WTE ok a bit more sluggish but 100+ pairs in 40 years.

I personally see nothing wrong in trying to balance things considering the effect that we have on their habitats. What concerns me more is the random and organised killing of birds of prey carried out with impunity by arrogant vested interests that do not give a toss and seem to be above the Law which unfortunately is implemented by their friends in the Judiciary.

In addition is the increasingly unproductive farmed landscape which has led to a massive decline not only in insects but the flower seed bank needed to sustain indigenous birdlife. Link that with widespread lowering of the water table and you have the present unsatisfactory situation.

When we leave the EU the sooner farming subsidies are linked to conservation values the better and multi-millionaires like Michael Heseltine (that large meteor didn’t kill them all;)) who live high on the Hog with subsidies will hopefully be a thing of the past...

Laurie -
 
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