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Ploceidae (1 Viewer)

Thilina N. de Silva, John M. Bates, A. Townsend Peterson. Getting the Ploceidae Tree Right. Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution. In Press, Accepted Manuscript, Available online 7 February 2018

Prager (2017) offered a series of criticisms of our recent publication providing a first phylogenetic hypothesis for the Ploceidae (De Silva et al., 2017). We were chagrined to note her correct indication that we misinterpreted the taxonomic identity of samples to which we referred as Northern Red Bishop (Euplectes franciscanus) versus Southern Red Bishop (E. orix), Montane Widowbird (E. psammocromius) versus Marsh Widowbird (E. hartlaubi), and Fan-tailed Widowbird (Euplectes axillaris) versus Long-tailed Widowbird (E. progne). We accept these three corrections fully: we overlooked differing taxonomic concepts between holdings of museum collections (the first two cases), and did not catch a misidentification of a specimen in one museum collection (the latter case). A fourth criticism was odd, involving a problem with the taxon labels of the ND2 sequences that we deposited in Genbank, which are scrambled— Prager (2017) admitted that our figures and conclusions are not affected; we have verified that the Genbank accession numbers reported in our paper are correct, although the names in the Genbank data records are not. We are in the process of correcting the problems with the Genbank data records.

We suggest that such issues of sequence metadata could be addressed much more flexibly if Genbank were to create a comments and feedback section, so that persons other than the creator of the record can provide input. Such comments can be offered, for example, for auditory submissions to a public database of avian vocalizations, Xeno-canto (http://www.xeno-canto.org/). In our case, thanks to Prager’s comment, we are addressing making the appropriate changes in Genbank. However, such corrections are not always made, so Genbank metadata often remain uncorrected in spite of some researcher knowing that problems exist.

After the factual documentation of the problems with our publication, however, Prager (2017) proceeded to make remarks that are more ad hominem in nature. She asserted that we have been “careless” in our literature review, but no documentation is offered. She suggested that, because she found problems in Euplectes, problems are probably rife across our ploceid work—indeed, we have checked each taxonomic name used, and can confirm that no further problems of this sort exist. A final comment, directed at co-author Peterson (although co-author Bates is equally guilty!), was about our focus on the need for museum vouchers in phylogenetic studies ( Bates et al., 2004; Peterson et al., 2007). Prager (2017) says that she appreciates the importance of museum collections and voucher samples in such research, but that a voucher is no substitute for knowledge of the studied organisms. We agree, and for that reason have sustained long field careers, but we remind Prager that vouchered samples can be revisited and re-examined, as she was able to request in the case of our misidentification of E. axillaris). Yes, perhaps a mistake was made (not by us, but by the source museum); however, thanks only to the existence of voucher specimens, it can be revisited and verified; with non-vouchered material (see, for example, the sampling in Prager et al., 2008), such repeatability of scientific results is not possible, and corrections are possible only via inference and supposition.

On a more fundamental level, we consider it rather sad that Prager (2017) saw it necessary to publish an aggressive critique of our paper. We were in friendly communication with her group soon after publication of our paper, exploring possible coordination and/or cooperation, yet no mention of problems was made. The problems pointed out could easily have been corrected as a “friendly amendment,” rather than as an attack. Science can, and should, proceed in a more civilized fashion, but the present interchange is not an example of that possibility.
 
I am rooting for team de Silva!! Because he posted to this forum. Laurent do you have an opinion on his proposal for others to comment on Genbank?
 
Golden-naped & Yellow-legged Weavers

Fishpool LDC, Collar NJ. 2018. On the validity of the Golden-naped Weaver Ploceus aureonucha and the Yellow-legged Weaver P. flavipes, with comments on forest ‘nuthatch-weavers’. ABC Bulletin, 25: 159-179.

Summary. Propositions are tested that Golden-naped Weaver Ploceus aureonucha (known from seven specimens) represents undescribed immature plumage stages of Yellow-mantled Weaver P. tricolor or, alternatively, a hybrid between P. tricolor and Vieillot’s Black Weaver P. nigerrimus, and that Yellow-legged Weaver P. flavipes (known from nine specimens) is a hybrid between P. nigerrimus and Maxwell’s Black Weaver P. albinucha. Morphological and morphometric evidence from all museum specimens of both contested species was compared with equivalent data from the putative parents, as well as from several other selected forest weaver species. Plumages of P. aureonucha grouped by sex and age prove to be consistent, but descriptions of them have varied confusingly. Its smaller size and much shorter tail than those of the proposed parent species render a hybrid origin for P. aureonucha entirely implausible. Moreover these differences, and the fact that the entire sequence of age-related plumages is known in P. tricolor, discredit the proposition that P. aureonucha is an immature P. tricolor. The nasal structure of P. flavipes, combined with its yellow legs, speaks for its taxonomic authenticity, while the case for a hybrid origin founders not just on these characters but also on the far greater size of of P. nigerrimus, one of the supposed parents. The geographical restriction of both taxa, when the suggested parent species are much more widely spread, further undermines the hybrid hypothesis. Mensural data show that forest ‘nuthatch-weavers’ have distinctively long hind toes and claws as well as narrow bills, modifications likely to be associated with their specialised foraging behaviour. Despite some field observations to the contrary, measurements indicate that P. aureonucha is unlikely to be a nuthatch-weaver
 
Ploceus philippinus

H. D. Oschadleus. Type locality of the Baya Weaver Ploceus philippinus (Passeriformes, Ploceidae). Zootaxa, Vol 4524, No 3: 22 Nov. 2018.

Abstract:

The Baya Weaver Ploceus philippinus (Linnaeus, 1766) was one of the first weaverbirds to be described, and although Linnaeus (1766) provided its specific epithet and the type locality of the Philippines, the Baya Weaver does not occur there. Hartert (1902, p. 577) thus restricted the locality to Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), and this locality has been used in all major references since, in spite of Stresemann (1952) showing that the type was most probably collected by Pierre Poivre in India. This paper draws attention to this error so that avian handbooks and taxonomic works may refer to the correct type locality of the Baya Weaver as Puducherry (previously Pondicherry), Puducherry district, India.
 
Hi guys,
Finally my paper got published!!
So I present to you, a first near species-level molecular phylogeny of the family Ploceidae. Thank you!!
https://academic.oup.com/auk/advanc...PIuCryTayruk0Eg-1dVYHoci6U2aSrCcgVMUPwsLnryq4

Awesome work!

My suggestion :

I divided Ploceus into 3 subgenera (Deignaniplectes, Ploceela, Ploceus) ;

Quelea into 2 subgenera (Quelea and Queleopsis);

5 subgenera under Euplectes (Taha, Paraplectes, Euplectes, Brachycope and Coliuspasser)

[That said, taking into account the time of divergence of each genus , I could eventually raise them to generic rank]

I recognise 2 genera within the African weavers, Malimbus and Textor.

Clarification is needed for some Plocepasser species and Pseudonigrita cabanisi. However, I reinstate Whitellus for cabanisi
 
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Hi guys,
Finally my paper got published!!
So I present to you, a first near species-level molecular phylogeny of the family Ploceidae. Thank you!!
https://academic.oup.com/auk/advanc...PIuCryTayruk0Eg-1dVYHoci6U2aSrCcgVMUPwsLnryq4

Fantastic work and a great read!

Just a couple of questions:

I notice in the tree that both Southern Red Bishop and Fan-tailed Widowbird seem to be paraphyletic, something you don’t comment on in text. What are your thoughts on that?

Also, I lack a rationale of a large Malimbus vs keeping the savanna Ploceus in a separate genus. As you state in the text, they seem to form two morphologic and ecologic separate clades.
 
Fantastic work and a great read!

Just a couple of questions:

I notice in the tree that both Southern Red Bishop and Fan-tailed Widowbird seem to be paraphyletic, something you don’t comment on in text. What are your thoughts on that?

Also, I lack a rationale of a large Malimbus vs keeping the savanna Ploceus in a separate genus. As you state in the text, they seem to form two morphologic and ecologic separate clades.

Thanks for the compliments.
Subspecies genetic data for most widowbird taxa were extracted from Prager's work, thus I didn't go on to interpret paraphyly observed within those clades.
Maybe yours is a good suggestion, I was trying to do minimal changes to the existing nomenclature while playing by the rule book. Thanks for your thoughts!!
 
Awesome work!

My suggestion :

I divided Ploceus into 3 subgenera (Deignaniplectes, Ploceela, Ploceus) ;

Quelea into 2 subgenera (Quelea and Queleopsis);

5 subgenera under Euplectes (Taha, Paraplectes, Euplectes, Brachycope and Coliuspasser)

[That said, taking into account the time of divergence of each genus , I could eventually raise them to generic rank]

I recognise 2 genera within the African weavers, Malimbus and Textor.

Clarification is needed for some Plocepasser species and Pseudonigrita cabanisi. However, I reinstate Whitellus for cabanisi

Thank you so much!
and thanks for your suggestions!
 
Ploceus baglafecht eremobius

I am wondering what's correct according the code. OD here.

  • Ploceus baglafecht eremobius (Hartlaub, 1887) e.g. Avibase
  • Ploceus baglafecht eremobius (Hartlaub & Emin, 1887) e.g. IOC World bird list

Of course Harlaub refered to Dr. Emin Beys MS. (Anyway if second option is correct why not (Hartlaub & Bey, 1887)?
 
Bey, Pasha, Freiherr, Comte, Earl, etc, are merely titles, honorifics, not given names. Emin was later "promoted" to Pasha (see eminibey in the Key).
 
"Hartlaub" is correct.

The description is quoted from "Emin Bey MS.", but the name is not attributed to him.

The default is always: author of the name = author of the work. To depart from this default, it must be clear from the content of the work that someone else was responsible for BOTH the name itself (i.e., the name should be explicitly attributed to that other person) AND the fulfillment of the conditions of availability other than the publication (i.e., that other person should have personally written the description). Here only the second condition is fulfilled, thus the default still applies.

(Note that, in fact, it is completely unclear that Emin Bey intended the description quoted by Hartlaub to be that of a new bird. In its MS form, the description could as well have appeared under a header of, say, "Symplectes emini", with the assumption that the bird being described was this taxon; Hartlaub alone, upon reading it (and/or, perhaps, seeing the specimen before it went missing), might then have recognised that a new taxon was involved, and coined a name for it.)
 
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Can you explain something to me? De Silva (2017) estimated the emergence of the family in the Middle Miocene, however in the figure, the first clade appears beyond 30 mya, isn't there a problem somewhere ?

Also, do you have any information about the name Somalita?
 
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Can you explain something to me? De Silva (2017) estimated the emergence of the family in the Middle Miocene, however in the figure, the first clade appears beyond 30 mya, isn't there a problem somewhere ?
(De Silva et al. 2017 - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311908775 .) The scale of the x-axis in Fig. 2 is in "substitutions per 100 sites" (i.e., % genetic divergence), not in million years.

Also, do you have any information about the name Somalita?
Name - Somalita
Authority - Boetticher
Year - 1942
OD ref - Boetticher H von. 1942. Der kleine Schwarzkopf-Sperlingsweber. Verh. Ornithol. Ges. Bayern, 22: 207-210.
Page - 210
OD link - https://www.zobodat.at/pdf/Verhandlungen-Ornith-Ges-Bayern_22_2_1942_0207-0210.pdf
Included nominal species - Nigrita cabanisi
Type species - Nigrita cabanisi Fischer & Reichenow 1884
Type species valid syn.? - in use
Fixation by - original designation
Fixation ref - as OD
Page - as OD
Fixation link - as OD
Type OD ref - Fischer AG, Reichenow A. 1884. Neue Vogelarten aus dem Massailand (Inneres Ostafrika). Entdeckt von Dr. A. G. Fischer während der im Auftrage der Geographischen Gesellschaft in Hamburg unternommenen Reise in das Innere des äquatorialen Ostafrikas. J. Ornithol., 32: 52-58.
Page - 54
Type OD link - https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/32699984
Notes - n/a
ICZN - n/a
Available - yes
Family - Ploceidae
 

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