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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

The Green ghost ( Zeiss SF 8X42 ) (1 Viewer)

Hi,

It is strange that I use or have used
Zeiss Victory 8x32 and 7x42
Zeiss Conquest 8x32, 10x32, 8x42
Nikon EDG 7x42, 8x32
Swarovski 12x50, 8.5x42 and SLC 8x56
Leica Noctivid 8x42, 10x42
Fujinon FMT all and many more ...only my SF 8x42 (Black Version 2017) has this clear green tinge!

If you have a penchant for "greenery", this effect should also appear in other binoculars, but is not!
Maybe I should send the binoculars to Zeiss to ask for an exchange if the latest models were better here ...

In the sunshine it is not so noticeable, in the cloudy sky I no longer use the glass ...

Andreas
 
[QUOTEMaybe I should send the binoculars to Zeiss to ask for an exchange if the latest models were better here ...
In the sunshine it is not so noticeable, in the cloudy sky I no longer use the glass ...
Andreas[/QUOTE]

I would return them as you suggest and mention exactly your concern about the unit. I too have a 2017 black 8/42 SF and overcast conditions are when this binocular "kicks in" for me. I've found the whole issue quite fascinating but frustrating for those that suffer from this concern.
 
PYRTLE said:
Is glare only evident in strong sunshine? What about snow, lakes, seascapes and skylines? I've experienced this in many parts of the UK, which has less sun and altitude than the Rockies.
Perhaps altitude sickness resulting in mass hallucinations, who knows.
Click to expand...
At higher altitude the sun is considerably stronger. I am at 6,000 feet altitude and when I go up in the mountains the altitude rises to over 10,000 feet. In North Norfolf you are at about 50 feet altitude. There is a BIG difference in how strong the sun is. The sun is almost 60% stronger. I am not saying you don't have glare but it is much worse here. You also get sunburned much easier!

"The simple answer is that the sun has less atmosphere to travel through. In a study conducted by Ronald O. ... That means that at an elevation of just over 6,000 feet here in Cheyenne, you're exposed to as much as 60 percent more sun than you would be if you were at the same latitude at sea level."
 
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I believe that there are "green" and more neutral SF, here these discussions always bring nothing.

Many people have looked through dozens of binoculars and suddenly notice a clear green tint in the SF ???
Why now with this glass?
Conspiracy theory?

I saw through two black models, both 2017 both are clearly "greener" than other binoculars!
Nobody can tell me that this is now only related to subjective perception, there seems to be a clear series distribution here,otherwise this phenomenon would also have to occur with other glasses.;)

Andreas
 
eronald said:
Here, especially for Jerry, is the Xrite color test.
https://www.xrite.com/hue-test
Click to expand...
Thanks, that was fun and reassuring. I scored 0. (Oddly, the "worst" score for males in their 60s was something like 1602106, which seems rather unlikely. Do color vision problems worsen with age?) I've only tried a (black) SF 42 briefly but didn't notice anything unusual or unpleasant about the color, green or otherwise. Am curious to try a 32.

But Andreas is right: defective color vision won't explain the "green ham" business with the SF. There's a very broad, consistent impression that Leicas have a mild warm (I would say reddish-orange) cast, Swarovskis cool or blueish, and (some?) Zeisses greenish (or yellowish as is said in China, thanks Range). I would agree with most of the above myself, and yet (as Alexis said) I'm not struck or bothered by it, as most seem not to be. So the real question is why some people are... how does the brain deal with color casts? Is a green-yellow cast more likely to bother people than warm or cool, and why?

The only contemporary bino whose color I've found unnatural or bothersome was the Nikon SE, which struck me as oddly reddish (not warm like Leica, just red). But those are well liked and I haven't heard many others say that.
 
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There are too many independent reports now for this effect to be written of as imaginary.

My feeling is that Zeiss source some assemblies from Japan where green tints are culturally desirable.
My impression of my Pocket is also of a green tint. My Leica UV are warm.

My expectation is that someone at Zeiss will read this thread, say ouch, and a small production check and adjustlent will be made, with existing greenish samples earmarked for sale in Japan only.

Edmund
 
I don't think the idea of the Japanese having a cultural preference for a green bias holds up when a wider selection of binoculars is included. Since the introduction of multi-coating Nikon binoculars have traditionally had a red bias and that's also my experience with Fujinon. The only Zeiss binoculars I've personally seen with a green bias have been made in Wetzlar. The strongest green bias I've ever seen was from Zeiss/Jena binoculars made in the 1980s using their T3M multi-coating.
 
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I just performed the test, because so many curious minds want to know. I scored a 2 with my
hardest color to determine is in the 23-24, the blue green.
If I spent more time, I could probably do better. The test colors jump and change around it seems.

Jerry
 
NDhunter said:
I just performed the test, because so many curious minds want to know. I scored a 2 with my
hardest color to determine is in the 23-24, the blue green.
If I spent more time, I could probably do better. The test colors jump and change around it seems.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Jerry, I saw the same effect you describe with certain intervals. I may have been using a 'dominant' eye. I found if I moved around, closed one eye, then the other, my perception would smooth out.

I believe the test we were pointed to is derived from a more extensive version. I've taken a similar test online a few years back where the number of colors to re-order may have been twice as many, so more subtle gradients to work with. I did not get a zero on that one the first time around. I had to really slow down and study to see the differences.

Enjoy your binoculars, regardless of their color bias!

-Bill
 
eronald said:
There are too many independent reports now for this effect to be written of as imaginary.

Edmund
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but is it the glass or the individual? Let's see some light transmission charts that show what people are responding to. I'd especially like to see one that clearly shows a green bias, vs. one that is more neutral with a different sample.

Just taking the color test shows that people on the forum have different levels of acuity, (as well as different calibrated monitors and devices they are viewing on...)

To me, the effect would have to be noticed by hundreds, if not thousands of customers, for it to be a meaningful issue. Here in this forum is a bunch of hair splitting bb stacking bino geeks, and there is no consensus.

I've seen warm and cool differences between binoculars, in direct comparison, but not the explicit 'green' bias that some have claimed. Go look through a 50 year old pair of binoculars, and you'll likely see a very yellow bias. What's being discussed here is something much more subtle, that in my opinion, the eye/brain generally adapts to in short order.

-Bill
 
wdc said:
Perhaps, but is it the glass or the individual?
Click to expand...

How do you explain the fact that people look through many of binoculars and only notice this effect with the SF?
If you can answer this question plausibly, would we be one step further ?!

Andreas

P.S.My girlfriend saw it too, without my notifying her!
Her first comment ... "wow, a huge field of view ... and then .." but the picture is more greener than in my Victory 8x32.

P.P.S.
wdc said:
and there is no consensus.
Click to expand...
Is there a consensus about the rolling ball effect, chromatic aberrations, edge sharpness, etc.
the optical properties of binoculars are always controversial!
 
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I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
 
Henry:

That thread really hashed things out, I just read pg. 1 of 8. I can see the color bias in your example, so
something is there.

What I don't see is any unusual tint in the view of the Victory SF. I will admit I really like the colors of the Nikon LX models, part of the Nikon view, that some would call warm.

Jerry
 
henry link said:
I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.
Click to expand...
Your photo is very reminiscent of the blue-green bar on the Xrite color test I just took. It's obvious that the two bino views are less purely blue than the background, headed in a green direction. I can't easily say which is farthest because they're not adjacent. I can't say whether the bino color cast itself is green or yellow, because the background is blue and either one would have this effect. It would be easier to judge with a neutral background, as in Tobias's photos.

Edit: Now I see you did go back and do it that way, in post #84. Now it's evident that the bino on the right (HT) is much greener than the one on the left (FL). One would expect that to be noticeable in use of the HT, not so much the FL.
 
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henry link said:
I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the photos and the link Henry. I can see it in both of them, relative to the background... just slightly yellow/green. The HT and the FL, eh? So... NOT the bino currently under investigation, but definitely a color shift. Did the HT and the FL garner similar complaints then? Again, I think whether someone actually sees it while viewing, or whether it bothers them is more or less the issue.

Most window glass in cars is tinted, and I doubt it is perfectly neutral. But when you drive for a few minutes, do you even think about the color bias of the windshield? (with the exception of the blue tint on top...)

-Bill
 
henry link said:
I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
Click to expand...

Hi Henry,

Yep - I readily detect a difference between the light on the background and the light through the binoculars (more greenish yellowish tint). Viewed on a Samsung Note 3 indoors via mid-morning diffuse natural light - windows on southern and western sides + reflected northern light transferred from the other side of the house by hardwood floors and white cathedral ceiling (lovely blue sky here today). I tried with an without my transitions glasses (mostly clear inside). Same. I even tried individual left and right eyes - same result.

To be clear, what I see though the SF's (was a 2 year old model) is a very slight warmish tinge very similar to the corned silverside picture I posted earlier in this thread (makes me hungry every time I look at it ! :) , over washed with a very slight hint of greenish. This is what I mean when I refer to "green ham". It's nothing like the Dr. Seuss bright green. The SF view could also be likened to a thin veil of Neapolitan ice-cream when you mash the three colours together (tastes like Bailey's Irish Cream when you do that - yum ! :) for a kind of browny-mauve. This matches what I see in the transmission curve with it's relatively weak blue.





Chosun :gh:
 
Troubador said:
But which effect do you mean Andreas? The green one or the yellow one or the red-green one?
Click to expand...

Hello Lee,

I mean the clear green cast in my SF!

The first look through the SF was on a foggy November day, and I immediately noticed that the fog had a clear green tinge!
Since this irritated me, I took the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 for comparison, here the fog had the typical greyish color, nothing green!

In the following weeks I hoped to get used to the color, but I feel this green extremely, especially when the sky is overcast.
It is clear that no binoculars are completely neutral in color, every binocular has a slight color shift in certain color spectra, but this can usually only be seen on closer inspection and is not a problem, with the SF I notice this shade of green in almost every situation, otherwise it would not be worth mentioning.

The question remains, if this shade of green is "produced" by the user's eyes, why doesn't it appear in other binoculars?

Andreas
 
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