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Unstreaked Acro in London..... (1 Viewer)

This is a very interesting looking bird, and initially reminded me of an EOW but clearly not this, but like others I considered Marsh and Blyth's and of course the possibility of it just being a odd coloured Reed warbler, but none of these are an easy fit. I already posted my conclusion that it is a good candidate for Caspian Reed Warbler. Hopefully the images posted by Ken will generate enough interest for some more London birders to go and see it!
 
See attached

As per prev post, first picture shows Reed upper with oval nostril, marsh lower with round nostril

Second picture is best image I can blow up of subject bird, it looks (to me) to have an oval nostril but better photos may help here................

BRW also have oval shaped nostril BTW.
 

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See attached

As per prev post, first picture shows Reed upper with oval nostril, marsh lower with round nostril

Second picture is best image I can blow up of subject bird, it looks (to me) to have an oval nostril but better photos may help here................

BRW also have oval shaped nostril BTW.

The nostril feature (of which I was blissfully unaware of) is IMO also supportive of RW, as are the toes/soles and leg colour.

I went for it again today, found it in the sunshine for a few minutes, where I got this single shot before losing it, n'er to be refound! The raised primary tip appears to be almost contrastingly pale?...clearly need better shots.

Having trawled various papers on East/West scirpaceous, and acknowledged the biometric and tonal overlaps, as you would with any other similar unstreaked migrant, I'm still of the opinion that this bird doesn't tick the Western RW box?

I'm surprised that so far, no ''expert'' has deigned to comment?

I'd have thought that 2000+ views, plus opinions posted, would have warranted a response from any ''agent/s'' representing any publication, that may have carried an article on the subject matter. If only to express the current thinking on the taxa...just a courtesy imo for the BF readership, not to mention the possible mileage for those parties concerned?

PS I believe I read somewhere that the Dutch regard fuscus as a separate species...happy to be corrected if not?
 

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Hi Ken,

Good to meet you on Monday. I've been doing some reading up on this tricky acro as well. It looks quite similar (albeit, as you would expect much more worn), to the bird at Kelynack in Cornwall in 2003, which was tentatively claimed as a Caspian Reed Warbler (Acrocephalus fuscus) by some. Pale feet, longish bill, pale underparts.

There's a discussion of Kelynack bird below, which might help:

http://www.surfbirds.com/mb/Features/kelynack-acro.html

I suspect, however, that it isn't going to be possible to produce a definitive id without some sort of molecular analysis. Here's something that I've lifted from another thread on the status of fuscus & the BBRC:

Despite reports/claims, BBRC hasn't yet accepted a record of fuscus in Britain:
Kehoe 2006. Racial identification and assessment in Britain: a report from the RIACT subcommittee. British Birds 99(12): 619-645.
http://www.bbrc.org.uk/Riact.pdf [p636]

"Reed Warbler Acrocephalus scirpaceus fuscus, 'Caspian Reed Warbler'
This eastern race is not on the British List. A number of claims have been assessed recently but none was considered conclusive, even though some contained in-hand images and full biometrics. Owing to variation within nominate scirpaceus, as well as fuscus, establishing the occurrence of the latter in Britain is thought not possible without tangible proof of origins. Any feathers lost from a suspected fuscus during ringing operations should be collected for
molecular analysis."

For anyone who's interested, the bird was still there on Monday 1st December, but very elusive.

Adam
 
Adam Hi,

Likewise...and many thanks for your contribution, since we met I've managed some better shots of this elusive blighter!

I'm in total agreement with your input however, I'd like to add possibly, an extra consideration to the current conundrum.

Having read the British Birds Feb.2002, Pearson et al article, which appeared to deal with the subject matter in a very comprehensive and clear manner. Are we not in a dissimilar position to that, which we were in twenty years ago, regarding Blyth's Reed v Reed Warbler, when ID was only considered acceptable after the claimed bird had been netted, with the ensuing biometrics taken and qualified?

It was suggested that a late October Isles of Scilly record, that was accepted by BB as a Marsh Warbler, was in all probability a fuscus Reed Warbler, and inferred that most ''pale'' October records are probably also?

Therefore is it not possible/probable, that any ''late pale RW'' are from populations caught up in the same ''time window'' as incoming Desert Wheatear, Isabelline Shrike, Eastern Black Redstart, Desert Warbler etc?

FWIW here are some more images from the Leyton bird (first reported by Stuart Fisher et al, mid-Nov.) which conform exactly to the plumage tones as stated in the said article per se...it couldn't be more supportive in my opinion.

At all times the bird looked pale however, it's upper-part tonal value changed, as and when the lighting changed. Under darker skies the bird looked particularly sandy/pale, perhaps looking more striking than when seen under brighter conditions?

As there is much overlap on the biometrics it's probably not worth mentioning, although P2 aligning with P5 was felt to be supportive according to the article..which I believe is shown in the fanned wing shot?
 

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I think it's a slightly different situation than with BRW - in as much as the structural differences were always known between that and reed, but with older optical and photographic kit it was thought almost impossible to prove without trapping.

I think the situation here is that there is so much overlap and variation with both taxa of reed that even examining the bird in the hand, on current knowledge, is not going to get you an answer. Hence the call for feathers for molecular analysis.

I'm in complete agreement that it's an interesting looking bird - and its been very well documented which may be useful in future. I'd be surprised if it turned out to be scirpaceus, but then I'm surprised frequently so that means nothing...
 
Just like to say, Ken, that your persistence and cracking photos deserve some answers - maybe you'll get them yet.
Well done.
Interesting bird indeed.
 
Just like to say, Ken, that your persistence and cracking photos deserve some answers - maybe you'll get them yet.
Well done.
Interesting bird indeed.

Thanks H! They do look somewhat different....:t:
 

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Only just seen this. Three questions... how does it move (runs, hops....) does it do anything odd with its tail, and what does it sound like?
 
I'm busy all day today - so only time for 1st impressions. It looks lightly short-winged for RW in a couple of shots but ok in others (and very slightly short-tailed eg here http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=523325&d=1416867326). The bill does look quite long, but rather spikey. All the primaries appear to be present and not incompatible with RW. The plumage is extremely worn - that might account for the colour. The body shape is all wrong for MW - its a chesty and relatively slim hipped bird though the legs are quite short. Think its going to need DNA and a sonogram.


Was it the "milky tea" colour in the field - or is that the camera emphasising warm tones?
 
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Jane the overriding tonal value was pale. The colour of the upper-parts were essentially sandy albeit this could alter to a greyish impression or "milky tea" in the changing light, any warm tints that you may see are by courtesy of my camera's sensor.

The underparts were a "constant white", soles, toes and legs were yellow, regarding locomotion the bird was not seen to run.

I can't see the level of "pallor" in this bird being attributable to wear, as it's overall cosmetic is constant in all areas, and as such, is compatible with fuscus (Eastern Reed Warbler).

Indeed...on a balance of probability, I've never seen a RW, or come to that any other species of birds plumage, worn to the extent, to that which, would be an extreme example...I believe the pictures speak for themselves.

PS...silent so far...but we live in hope :)
 
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I have - (seen a bird that worn) no time to find photos now

Not saying that is the only possible reason - but worth bearing in mind. The tertials and tail are shredded.
 
Here's an example of how wear can effect colour tones across a whole acro warbler.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=257712&highlight=marsh+warbler

I still think this is a very interesting bird, but it can't be nailed as a fuscus on plumage tones alone. Keep at it Ken, you may still get a good recording - although I'm not sure how much use that would be in separating fuscus from nominate. Could anything be done with a faecal sample if one were to be obtained?
 
Could anything be done with a faecal sample if one were to be obtained?

Any faecal sample would have to be obtained from it's preferred habitat, wading through a rat infested brook, liberally sprinkled with human deitrus, I think "arms length" images are my preferred route.
 
Here is a Reed that was thought to be Marsh on plumage tones - close up you could see a lot of the tips to the contour feathers were missing... http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=46320&d=1147904364 [looking rusty in the photo but pallid and olive in life]

In your bird, the underparts look rather grey-toned and "streaky/patchy" - as though a substantial amount of the understory is showing
e.g.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=523326&d=1416867349

The Image that you've shown was taken during a period of intermittent drizzle and grey skies, the streakiness that you see on that occasion, was in no small part due to the bird moving through the wet leafage and worn understory...however the ''base colour'' of the under-parts were white in virtually all lighting conditions.

Clearly wear and tear involved...but total upper-part fade imo is unlikely, here are a few more pics. taken under neutral grey skies, hopefully showing a consistency in most lights...to the prevailing sandy/tawny upper-parts.
 

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All I'll say is I have rarely seen very very pale Acros which have been very abraded - its the tips of contour feathers that have the strongest colour saturation. Your bird hasn't replaced its central TFs and odds are its got some unusually old feathers.


If you can get it with its wing open well enough to resolve the notch on the outermost visible primary - this might help

In nominate scirpaceus, notch on p9 level with tips of p1–p2 in adult (occasionally level with p3 or tips of outer secondaries), with p2–p3 or half-way between p3 and p4 in juvenile, exceptionally level with p4 (Springer 1960; RMNH, ZMA);

in fuscus, usually level with p2 or nearer secondary-tips, rarely half-way between p2 and p3 (Williamson 1968a). Longest tertial reaches tips of outer secondaries or p1.
 
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